2024 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Race

[BAT340]

I’m just glad to see the team making good progress the last two races. Hopefully it continues. It’s about time (way past time) the worm turned for Big Red. On to Singapore, and better results. Oh, and anyone but Lando.

[Cavallino]

Genius? One could say that
But that certainly cannot be legal….it is a flexible aero device that give ya free lap time….i would totally co snider it ILLEGAL

judging by how much this wing is flexing in the shots i've seen on twitter, i think that is conservatively giving them half a second around Baku.

what do you guys think

[jgonzalesm6]

judging by how much this wing is flexing in the shots i've seen on twitter, i think that is conservatively giving them half a second around Baku.

what do you guys think

The closest Leclerc ever got to Piastri was 5/10ths coming out of T16 which leads to the long straight and even then Leclerc couldn't make the pass to Piastri under DRS. In order for the pass to work, Leclerc had to be 3 to 4/10ths behind Piastri coming out of T16.

That whole rear wing of Mclaren does 2 things:

1) The whole rear wing flexes backwards under load(high speed) thereby reducing drag.

2) There a 2 "mini drs" points at the end of the DRS wing that also flex under load during high speed thereby reducing drag. (DRS isn't even deployed on the Mclaren).

[Greig]

No, actually I support Ferrari - and I support Ferrari getting the WCC. We had a chance at achieving that and unfortunately SantanderSaniz was more interested in putting himself over the team. Maybe if he woke up 20 laps earlier he wouldn’t have had to be in that tussle and could have fought Leclerc on merit.

Interesting that you were adamant that Sainz wasn’t trying to pass Charles, but was on the racing line. Now he admits he was fighting his teammate and you deflect the story to me instead. What an ego.

No you support one driver in Ferrari, and you will again next season. We get the same points for 2-3 no matter if Carlos got ahead. Maybe just maybe he made his tyres last the race...not his fault Charles ran out of tyre......

[ferrari1.8t]

No you support one driver in Ferrari, and you will again next season. We get the same points for 2-3 no matter if Carlos got ahead. Maybe just maybe he made his tyres last the race...not his fault Charles ran out of tyre......

No, I support Ferrari - and that includes backing the faster driver. Always have and always will. It’s worked in the past, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen etc. You’d rather bait members and go on rants than admit that Carlos’ selfishness and poor judgment cost FERRARI valuable constructors points today.

[Cavallino]

The closest Leclerc ever got to Piastri was 5/10ths coming out of T16 which leads to the long straight and even then Leclerc couldn't make the pass to Piastri under DRS. In order for the pass to work, Leclerc had to be 3 to 4/10ths behind Piastri coming out of T16.

That whole rear wing of Mclaren does 2 things:

1) The whole rear wing flexes backwards under load(high speed) thereby reducing drag.

2) There a 2 "mini drs" points at the end of the DRS wing that also flex under load during high speed thereby reducing drag. (DRS isn't even deployed on the Mclaren).

what's the point of this post?

to ignore my question and state the obvious.

5/10ths should have been more than close enough to get the pass done on the straight if it weren't for the McLaren's illegal wings is the point. you can look at other passes against non-flexi-winged cars for comparison.

my post is saying that around that entire lap in race pace that wing is worth 5 tenths.

way to derail the conversation as usual

[Whatsyourangle]

So evidently you expect our drivers to always score 1,2. I have just re-run the race and thought Charles drove a stonking race in a car that was not the best today.
I find it amusing that you think Lewis & Max could do better in our present car. Watching both of them today they both looked very ordinary just because they were not in the best car today.

I think our cars were the best in the field. Piastri was just smarter when he overtook Charles but the McLaren wasn't a faster car. And the Carlos event, well, let's not get into that. Charles blew a great opportunity to score back to back wins and I'm a bit upset about that. Sorry.

[Cavallino]

No, I support Ferrari - and that includes backing the faster driver. Always have and always will. It’s worked in the past, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen etc. You’d rather bait members and go on rants than admit that Carlos’ selfishness and poor judgment cost FERRARI valuable constructors points today.

Carlos cost us 22 points today

[Cavallino]

I think our cars were the best in the field. Piastri was just smarter when he overtook Charles but the McLaren wasn't a faster car. And the Carlos event, well, let's not get into that. Charles blew a great opportunity to score back to back wins and I'm a bit upset about that. Sorry.

if Mclaren were forced to keep their wings still then yes the Ferrari was the fastest car in the field, but those wings made the Mclaren the faster car today. Mclaren could run more downforce without penalty down the straights. The advantage of being able to do that is huge and can't be emphasized enough.

[Brembo]

Carlos cost us 22 points today

He's liable to loose his Ferrari seat next year!!

[jgonzalesm6]

what's the point of this post?

to ignore my question and state the obvious.

5/10ths should have been more than close enough to get the pass done on the straight if it weren't for the McLaren's illegal wings is the point. you can look at other passes against non-flexi-winged cars for comparison.

my post is saying that around that entire lap in race pace that wing is worth 5 tenths.

way to derail the conversation as usual

I didn't derail anything.

Given Leclerc's top speed in the straight and what he needed to make the pass to Piastri, I would say(no way of proving this) that Piastri or the Mclaren rear wing flexion(at 2 points of the wing) gives the Mclaren a full second to stay ahead of Leclerc when the rear wing is under load.

Norris made up 11 places as well and even held off Checo so Piastri could be out in front when Piastri came out of the pits.

[ntukza]

i just read something about that
The mediums had a clif on their performane. it was a matter of a lap where suddenly you could run 2s slower. Thats what happened with Lec . In his last lap he was slower +2s then hia previous lap. That combined that the hard performed bette then anticipated on their 1st lap from Pia . It was like the perfect storm against us. And this was also due to the lack of running full plan in FPs. on the hindsight the team/ Lec made 2 mistakes today that made him lost the win
1st the team could pit the same lap as Pia , but in that exact moment the pace hadnt drop do much , so it was not a mistake from the team.
And Lec could defend better but it was his 1st lap on hards and he didnt anticipate that move from Pia bacause at that moment traction + speed was much better for Pia + he expected /try to not push the tires so much to had better pace later.
So in the end yes you could have done batter and we lost the race tather Pia to win it , but all this is theories after the outcome.

Yup, just now watched the laptimes on Mediums.
1. He lost 2sec from the previous lap before pit.
2. His outlap is worst. On top of it, he or team didn’t know how to bring those hards into right temp. As there’s no run on these hards in FP’s.

What Ferrari could have done is, Pit immediately after seeing Oscar into the pits. They’ve waited 1 lap long. So 1L he lost 2sec & 1In-lap + Out-lap lost 3sec. While coming out of pits he was within DRS range of Oscar & Perez. Albon was in between Leclerc & Oscar.

In general, Ferrari & Leclerc always introduce the tyres into working range little slow. This time they planned the same, it didn’t work for them.

So it down to Leclerc & Ferrari team who made the mistake.

Thank you for this. The sudden tyre drop-off would explain it then, because it was clear that we lost a lot of time over that phase but it wasn't clear why (e.g driver error, tyres...).

We can't blame the team for pitting Charles a lap later. That's generally what you do when you have a 6-second lead. The outlap was quite disappointing.

[GoodtimesF1]

No, I support Ferrari - and that includes backing the faster driver. Always have and always will. It’s worked in the past, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen etc. You’d rather bait members and go on rants than admit that Carlos’ selfishness and poor judgment cost FERRARI valuable constructors points today.

Not sure if you saw what happened to Charles but his tires fell of a cliff. He even said it on the board radio that his tires were gone. If anything Charles risked second place defending against Carlos when he knew he was done. Carlos seemed to be in a position where he could only do wrong in your eyes. If he did not attack Perez you would blame him for not getting to the podium and helping Charles. If there was no incident he would be behind a very slow Charles not being allowed to overtake, backing Perez up only to become a sitting duck on the main straight (we did not have the Mclaren speed to defend againts Perez with DRS). Charles was losing a second a lap there to Piastri and I believe Perez and Carlos were faster than Piastri if they would not be stuck behind each other.

Fine to be critical about Carlos and he maybe should have been more carefull a stayed a bit more to the right but that also counts a bit for Perez. It was a mistake I can put on both of them. But when it comes to Charles it seems like some of you act as if he is with no faults. He put himself in that position by leaving the door wide op to Piastri as if he was a rookie. Carlos had nothing to do with Charles losing the race.

[racingbradley]

It seems to me that Carlos drove a very careful race looking after his tyres and hoping to swoop down on the leaders at the end, when his tyres were in better shape. I think Carlos drove for himself showing that selfish streak he has. It didn't pay off this time!!!!!

[ferrari1.8t]

Not sure if you saw what happened to Charles but his tires fell of a cliff. He even said it on the board radio that his tires were gone. If anything Charles risked second place defending against Carlos when he knew he was done. Carlos seemed to be in a position where he could only do wrong in your eyes. If he did not attack Perez you would blame him for not getting to the podium and helping Charles. If there was no incident he would be behind a very slow Charles not being allowed to overtake, backing Perez up only to become a sitting duck on the main straight (we did not have the Mclaren speed to defend againts Perez with DRS). Charles was losing a second a lap there to Piastri and I believe Perez and Carlos were faster than Piastri if they would not be stuck behind each other.

Fine to be critical about Carlos and he maybe should have been more carefull a stayed a bit more to the right but that also counts a bit for Perez. It was a mistake I can put on both of them. But when it comes to Charles it seems like some of you act as if he is with no faults. He put himself in that position by leaving the door wide op to Piastri as if he was a rookie. Carlos had nothing to do with Charles losing the race.

I never said anything about Carlos being at fault for Charles loosing the race. Charles’ loss was completely his fault as he was caught napping and had to chew his tires trying to pass Piastri back. My point was and always will be that Carlos cost the team constructors points today - that’s it. He could have handled it differently but does as he always does, fights his teammate harder than any other driver.

[Greig]

I never said anything about Carlos being at fault for Charles loosing the race. Charles’ loss was completely his fault as he was caught napping and had to chew his tires trying to pass Piastri back. My point was and always will be that Carlos cost the team constructors points today - that’s it. He could have handled it differently but does as he always does, fights his teammate harder than any other driver.

Yeah what a fight he gave Charles, driving on the racing line while Charles went defensive.....why you not blaming Charles for fighting out of interest?

[Cavallino]

I didn't derail anything.

Given Leclerc's top speed in the straight and what he needed to make the pass to Piastri, I would say(no way of proving this) that Piastri or the Mclaren rear wing flexion(at 2 points of the wing) gives the Mclaren a full second to stay ahead of Leclerc when the rear wing is under load.

Norris made up 11 places as well and even held off Checo so Piastri could be out in front when Piastri came out of the pits.

so you reckon it could have been worth a full second a lap in race pace.

yeah i'm inclined to agree with you. one half to a full second.

it's crazy

[Cavallino]

Yeah what a fight he gave Charles, driving on the racing line while Charles went defensive.....why you not blaming Charles for fighting out of interest?

Carlos should have been second going into turn 1

put him on the soft tyres to do so if we need to, if he's going to end up down in fourth anyways

[Cavallino]

I never said anything about Carlos being at fault for Charles loosing the race. Charles’ loss was completely his fault as he was caught napping and had to chew his tires trying to pass Piastri back. My point was and always will be that Carlos cost the team constructors points today - that’s it. He could have handled it differently but does as he always does, fights his teammate harder than any other driver.

was he really napping, or did he thiink the gap was safe if it were a normal car, and didn't account for the jelly wings on the Mclaren?

[Cavallino]

https://x.com/brakeboosted/status/1835322050946146804

they clearly designed it to move like this

[GoodtimesF1]

I never said anything about Carlos being at fault for Charles loosing the race. Charles’ loss was completely his fault as he was caught napping and had to chew his tires trying to pass Piastri back. My point was and always will be that Carlos cost the team constructors points today - that’s it. He could have handled it differently but does as he always does, fights his teammate harder than any other driver.

Did not say you did but you are here complaining about Carlos while up until that post, Charles got a free pass.

Also wonder what you think Carlos should have done in that position. Charles lost 3 seconds in 2 laps once Piastri broke DRS. You expect him to stay behind Charles so Perez could overtake them both?

[ferrari1.8t]

Did not say you did but you are here complaining about Carlos while up until that post, Charles got a free pass.

Also wonder what you think Carlos should have done in that position. Charles lost 3 seconds in 2 laps once Piastri broke DRS. You expect him to stay behind Charles so Perez could overtake them both?

I don’t care who came 2nd and 3rd. Saniz only focus at that moment was to pass his teammate, not to defend. He should have paid attention to Perez, defended to protect the double podium. He could have past Charles sooner after the threat of Perez was gone. Or he could have stayed 3rd to protect Charles and secure the 2-3 for Ferrari. Either way there were options. Issue is Sainz only goal was to beat Charles, not secure points for the team.

[racingbradley]

Charles reckons he had a good look at Mclaren's engine mapping while he was behind Piastri.
I wonder if he can relay to the team what they have got that is significant.

[Greig]

Carlos should have been second going into turn 1

put him on the soft tyres to do so if we need to, if he's going to end up down in fourth anyways

He done a pretty ok race, managed his tyres to last the distance and would probably have got P2.

[FerrariF60]

was he really napping, or did he thiink the gap was safe if it were a normal car, and didn't account for the jelly wings on the Mclaren?

it was a brave move by Piastri and totally relied on teh brakes stopping him into turn 1, as he could have easily locked up and gone into the run off area or carrying too much speed and crashing into the barrier of turn 1, he even said himself that it was a 50/50 that this move would stick....and well it did stick.

Charles did NOT expect this and caught him by surprise; he thought that it would have been easier to repass him under DRS, but those "jelly wings" Mclaren has are doing wonders

Ferrari have to look into this ASAP, espcially having whole MONTH off with NO racing between singapore and Austin

[Cavallino]

He done a pretty ok race, managed his tyres to last the distance and would probably have got P2.

because the battling between Leclerc and Piastri let everyone catch up, Piastri was holding Leclerc up, otherwise he finishes fourth

i'll give you the tyre management but you need to be able to manage your tyres AND be quick.

[Cavallino]

it was a brave move by Piastri and totally relied on teh brakes stopping him into turn 1, as he could have easily locked up and gone into the run off area or carrying too much speed and crashing into the barrier of turn 1, he even said himself that it was a 50/50 that this move would stick....and well it did stick.

Charles did NOT expect this and caught him by surprise; he thought that it would have been easier to repass him under DRS, but those "jelly wings" Mclaren has are doing wonders

Ferrari have to look into this ASAP, espcially having whole MONTH off with NO racing between singapore and Austin

yes

and one of these times Piastri is going to be in the barriers or he tries a move like this on someone who isn't a competent driver like Osama Bin Russell, and both cars will be in pieces.

i hope it happens soon

[FerrariF60]

and what really impressed me the most, was how good the tires lasted on Chrles' car while following Piastri lap after lap for 30 or so laps trying to pass him; of course they gave up the ghost 2 or 3 laps to go, but it's understandable that tehy gave up as he was pushing like heck and all that time in the dirty hot air of teh Mclaren.

of course Sainz had better tiers at the end, cause he was sleeping most of that stint

ONLY if we can come up with the flexy wings ourselves, then its' game ON with mclaren for WCC

[Cavallino]

and what really impressed me the most, was how good the tires lasted on Chrles' car while following Piastri lap after lap for 30 or so laps trying to pass him; of course they gave up the ghost 2 or 3 laps to go, but it's understandable that tehy gave up as he was pushing like heck and all that time in the dirty hot air of teh Mclaren.

of course Sainz had better tiers at the end, cause he was sleeping most of that stint

ONLY if we can come up with the flexy wings ourselves, then its' game ON with mclaren for WCC

yes to all of this.

we should be able to win in Singapore if we execute better than at Baku,

then there's what 3 weeks before Austin, that's where we really need to see the flexible wings on the Ferrari, supposedly we'll see it there

that should be a half a second that Ferrari and Red Bull can bolt on that Mclaren and Mercedes should have no answer for.... ( they can't make their wings bend MORE right? )

which should also mean we can start seeing Red Bull take points off of Mclaren again.

it'll be close, the points Sainz left out there yesterday really cost us, we need a Mclaren dnf still.

[Cavallino]

honestly it would be worth it enough for me just to see Leclerc beat Lando in the standings this year after all the hype the Brits gave Lando over nothing.