2024 Austrian Grand Prix - Race

[tifosi1993]

But what was happening when Carlos was on the medium and Russel on the hards?? He was able to maintain a reasonable gap in the start of the race when they were on the same tyre but after the final pit stop was not doing much while on the better tyre.. This sounds like a pit wall failure to me or some problem with the car.

The medium was the best race tyre and the level of degradation between the mediums and the hards was similar. That is why he was able to keep up. But as soon as it was the other way around, Sainz couldn't keep up and lost position to Piastri towards the end.

The problem is the downgrade package Ferrari had brought in Barcelona. It changed the car completely and erased all the strong points of the SF24.

[Scuderia rossa]

The medium was the best race tyre and the level of degradation between the mediums and the hards was similar. That is why he was able to keep up. But as soon as it was the other way around, Sainz couldn't keep up and lost position to Piastri towards the end.

The problem is the downgrade package Ferrari had brought in Barcelona. It changed the car completely and erased all the strong points of the SF24.

I think it is quite the opposite! The package provided the additional downforce they (technical department) were seeking and even more! The problem is the suspension layout that cannot cope with the additional downforce that is being produced by the upgrade and that leads to bouncing/porpoising or whatever you name it!

[GoodtimesF1]

The medium was the best race tyre and the level of degradation between the mediums and the hards was similar. That is why he was able to keep up. But as soon as it was the other way around, Sainz couldn't keep up and lost position to Piastri towards the end.

The problem is the downgrade package Ferrari had brought in Barcelona. It changed the car completely and erased all the strong points of the SF24.

Has this been confirmed by the team? Not that I doubt you but I expect some explanation about this performance. Any other team would have told Carlos to drive the wheels of that thing to get to the podium. It just felt like nobody cared what Carlos was doing.

[jgonzalesm6]

I think it is quite the opposite! The package provided the additional downforce they (technical department) were seeking and even more! The problem is the suspension layout that cannot cope with the additional downforce that is being produced by the upgrade and that leads to bouncing/porpoising or whatever you name it!

Has this been confirmed by the team? Not that I doubt you but I expect some explanation about this performance. Any other team would have told Carlos to drive the wheels of that thing to get to the podium. It just felt like nobody cared what Carlos was doing.

Trust me, the medium was the best tire when compared to the hards at this track.

[subfire91]

I think it is quite the opposite! The package provided the additional downforce they (technical department) were seeking and even more! The problem is the suspension layout that cannot cope with the additional downforce that is being produced by the upgrade and that leads to bouncing/porpoising or whatever you name it!

Yeap. Confirmed by Leclerc also. He does not state the suspension as the culprit but the first part of your conclusion he confirms:

Ferrari showed at the Red Bull Ring that they are the fourth force in the Championship at the moment. The regression compared to the early part of spring came with the introduction of a new aerodynamic package two races ago aimed at giving more downforce to the SF-24. According to Leclerc, the results are visible, but the new features have also created collateral problems that the team has yet to solve.

“The aerodynamic downforce values brought by the new package are as expected, and I confirm this, but this has brought other limitations that we need to examine, because since we introduced it, we have had some difficulties. Today we set up the car in a completely opposite way, so I believe there are many things to learn from the two configurations. I didn’t feel comfortable, but we will analyze and compare them.”

“The truth is that in Formula 1, coincidences are few, especially when it comes to struggling for two weekends in a row. So, we need to examine and analyze the situation. But we are seeing the numbers, so it means we have made a step forward. However, there are other limits that we need to examine to try to eliminate them.”

Entire article below:

https://scuderiafans.com/charles-lec...-other-issues/

[GoodtimesF1]

Trust me, the medium was the best tire when compared to the hards at this track.

Yeah I understand that the medium is the better tyre. My point is how there was not much done to catch Russel who was on the hard. I really want to know what happend there?? If Max were in that situations his team would be telling him to reign in Russel. Our team did nothing. Who cares if Piastri was faster. We should have passed Russel and let him deal with Piastri but we were not able to catch a car on a slower tyre. That tells me that something must have been wrong or the team was sleeping.

[jgonzalesm6]

Yeah I understand that the medium is the better tyre. My point is how there was not much done to catch Russel who was on the hard. I really want to know what happend there?? If Max were in that situations his team would be telling him to reign in Russel. Our team did nothing. Who cares if Piastri was faster. We should have passed Russel and let him deal with Piastri but we were not able to catch a car on a slower tyre. That tells me that something must have been wrong or the team was sleeping.

What you gain in durability with the hard tire, you lose in grip. Again, this is track specific.

[FerrariF60]

It's obviously the driver's fault! Don't you know, Max would've got pole in this car and won this race!

Really? Please tell me you’re NOT serious with your comment…who would think a thing like that?

[elnano14]

Yeah I understand that the medium is the better tyre. My point is how there was not much done to catch Russel who was on the hard. I really want to know what happend there?? If Max were in that situations his team would be telling him to reign in Russel. Our team did nothing. Who cares if Piastri was faster. We should have passed Russel and let him deal with Piastri but we were not able to catch a car on a slower tyre. That tells me that something must have been wrong or the team was sleeping.

Because we are simply slow, slower than Mercedes, the tyres different didn't even matter

[FerrariF60]

Please do not avoid the swear filter. It’s there for a reason. Thanks

[FerrariF60]

Dirty moves from Crashstappen.

Crashstapen is back to his OLD self, when he used to play dirty tricks/ moves with Leclerc back in the day as well as with Lewis….he doesn’t know or does t want to race cleanly

[FerrariF60]

My DoD is Hulk, P6 in that Haas.

^this, I 100% agree

[nani_s23]

Mercs gave LH title winning car 2014-2020
RB gave Vettel & Max title winning car 2010-2013 & 2021-2024
McLaren is strong contender next year.

Why Ferrari aren’t able to work around some driver & give a championship car? Alonso/Vettel & now Charles.

You will always have no.1 driver in your team & team should work around him. That’s how RB & Mercs were dominant.

I just simply see Ferrari wasting Leclerc’s talent here. We are seeing only glimpses of his skill here & there either in quali or in couple of races that’s it.

2026 is the only hope for me. If it doesn’t work out, leclerc better switch to other team.

Today once again it’s proved that only Leclerc can take fight to Max.

[Tifoso]

Mercs gave LH title winning car 2014-2020
RB gave Vettel & Max title winning car 2010-2013 & 2021-2024
McLaren is strong contender next year.

Why Ferrari aren’t able to work around some driver & give a championship car? Alonso/Vettel & now Charles.

You will always have no.1 driver in your team & team should work around him. That’s how RB & Mercs were dominant.

I just simply see Ferrari wasting Leclerc’s talent here. We are seeing only glimpses of his skill here & there either in quali or in couple of races that’s it.

2026 is the only hope for me. If it doesn’t work out, leclerc better switch to other team.

Today once again it’s proved that only Leclerc can take fight to Max.

I tend to agree with your analysis.

[Tifoso Svedese]

The elephant in the room is that F1 still has knife-edge winglets that automatically will cut a tyre for the slightest contact. Either the wings need to change or the tyres need a lot stronger sidewalls, because it's quite pathetic the way punctures happen all the time. Turned what's just a bit of silly games at slow speed into something much worse for both drivers.

[jgonzalesm6]

The elephant in the room is that F1 still has knife-edge winglets that automatically will cut a tyre for the slightest contact. Either the wings need to change or the tyres need a lot stronger sidewalls, because it's quite pathetic the way punctures happen all the time. Turned what's just a bit of silly games at slow speed into something much worse for both drivers.

I have seen drivers incidents like Max-Lando way too many times in the past. This is nothing new to F1.

[GoodtimesF1]

What you gain in durability with the hard tire, you lose in grip. Again, this is track specific.

I understand all this. So you agree that Carlos should have been able to catch Russel on the better tyre right? With about only 21 Laps to go? Sure the hards are more durable but I would prefer to take more out of the medium to try and get an extra position and create a gap and worry about the loss of grip later.

You don't conserve your types with 20 Laps to go, you drive the wheels of the car to get a podium. This is why I want to know what happend on the board radio. Any other team would tell their driver to go catch the guy with the weaker tyre with only 20 Laps to go.

[jgonzalesm6]

I understand all this. So you agree that Carlos should have been able to catch Russel on the better tyre right? With about only 21 Laps to go? Sure the hards are more durable but I would prefer to take more out of the medium to try and get an extra position and create a gap and worry about the loss of grip later.

You don't conserve your types with 20 Laps to go, you drive the wheels of the car to get a podium. This is why I want to know what happend on the board radio. Any other team would tell their driver to go catch the guy with the weaker tyre with only 20 Laps to go.

We are talking about Ferrari strategy here so who knows what they were thinking at this specific moment in time. They more than likely wanted Sainz to manage the tires and hold position since Leclerc was looking like out of the points(even though Leclerc's strategist said that he could be in the points without a SC.)

[tifosi1993]

Mercs gave LH title winning car 2014-2020
RB gave Vettel & Max title winning car 2010-2013 & 2021-2024
McLaren is strong contender next year.

Why Ferrari aren’t able to work around some driver & give a championship car? Alonso/Vettel & now Charles.

You will always have no.1 driver in your team & team should work around him. That’s how RB & Mercs were dominant.

I just simply see Ferrari wasting Leclerc’s talent here. We are seeing only glimpses of his skill here & there either in quali or in couple of races that’s it.

2026 is the only hope for me. If it doesn’t work out, leclerc better switch to other team.

Today once again it’s proved that only Leclerc can take fight to Max.

+1

[tifosi1993]

Really? Please tell me you’re NOT serious with your comment…who would think a thing like that?

Of course, I wasn't being serious. But some people here are. They seem to harbouring the notion that drivers are letting Ferrari down and if we had Max, he would put that SF24 on pole.

As if, P3 in the standing with 150 points while driving the 4th best car isn't good enough.

[tifosi1993]

I think it is quite the opposite! The package provided the additional downforce they (technical department) were seeking and even more! The problem is the suspension layout that cannot cope with the additional downforce that is being produced by the upgrade and that leads to bouncing/porpoising or whatever you name it!

Which pretty much means that those upgrades are nothing but downgrades. Doesn't matter how many number of downforce they are producing, if those numbers don't translate on track.
Right now, because of porpoising, the whole platform is unstable and forcing the mechanics to raise the floor more than its optimal height, resulting in less downforce.

[aroutis]

The question at hand is why have we fallen down in performance after the first big upgrade and what can we do about it.
There is not a problem with the drivers.

[jgonzalesm6]

Here's 2 videos (side-by-side) of the same track on the same corner.

1st video is Leclerc vs Max and look how much Leclerc squeezes Max outside going into the corner. Max's car is almost halfway off the track.

2nd video is Max vs Lando and look how much Max squeezes Lando outside going into the corner. Nothing like what Max did with Leclerc.


One is experienced (Max) and the other is not(Lando). Yes, Max got the penalty with the Lando incident.


https://twitter.com/Willseh14/status...98318194397537

[Tifoso Svedese]

Also, if that clash was worth 10 seconds, how come Max was cleared for cheating at the same corner in 2019 when Charles was robbed of the race win by being rammed off the track? I really don't see the difference.

[GoodtimesF1]

We are talking about Ferrari strategy here so who knows what they were thinking at this specific moment in time. They more than likely wanted Sainz to manage the tires and hold position since Leclerc was looking like out of the points(even though Leclerc's strategist said that he could be in the points without a SC.)

I think you may be correct and if this is confirmed it would make me really sad. It means we would rather take fifth than fight for a podium that could have potentially turned into a win.

[Brembo]

A Sainz Russell Merc team come 2025 with no team orders will be hard to beat !! If Ferrari gives Lewis the car he wants he will be the top driver , and his #8 WILL BE THERE FOR HIM.

[Greig]

Here's 2 videos (side-by-side) of the same track on the same corner.

1st video is Leclerc vs Max and look how much Leclerc squeezes Max outside going into the corner. Max's car is almost halfway off the track.

2nd video is Max vs Lando and look how much Max squeezes Lando outside going into the corner. Nothing like what Max did with Leclerc.


One is experienced (Max) and the other is not(Lando). Yes, Max got the penalty with the Lando incident.


https://twitter.com/Willseh14/status...98318194397537

Lando is not experienced? oh ok then lol

Difference is Charles does not move under braking, Max did thats why he got a penalty. I get your a Red Bull fan but you can't defend his move.

p.s the move under braking rule was introduced as a result of Max, we just seen him returning to his old ways.

[jgonzalesm6]

Lando is not experienced? oh ok then lol

Difference is Charles does not move under braking, Max did thats why he got a penalty. I get your a Red Bull fan but you can't defend his move.

p.s the move under braking rule was introduced as a result of Max, we just seen him returning to his old ways.

The difference is Max took a way wider racing line under Leclerc and came underneath Leclerc.

Lando could have done the same as he had ALOT of room to his left, but didn't.

Hamilton did the same thing with Rosberg in 2016 in Austria and took a wider line going into the turn with Rosberg, unfortunately Rosberg whom had alot of room into the turn chose to squeeze Hamilton outside. Rosberg was at fault for that move as Hamilton gave Rosberg alot of room.

You and this "RedBull fan" is really getting old.

I have given you 2 examples and all you reply is to demean my character....it's sad really.

[GoodtimesF1]

p.s the move under braking rule was introduced as a result of Max, we just seen him returning to his old ways.

Did he really return to his old ways or is this just what he does? I think we've just forgotten about his unsportsman like behaviour because he's never been under much pressure these past seasons. It's easy to be a clean driver when your almost always at the front and able to drive of into the sunset by lap 3. If anything, Mclaren is showing that Max is still the same maniac he was when he was a rookie in the sport.

[jgonzalesm6]

Did he really return to his old ways or is this just what he does? I think we've just forgotten about his unsportsman like behaviour because he's never been under much pressure these past seasons. It's easy to be a clean driver when your almost always at the front and able to drive of into the sunset by lap 3. If anything, Mclaren is showing that Max is still the same maniac he was when he was a rookie in the sport.

This "move-under-braking" rule is nothing new to F1. I have seen many F1 drivers move under braking since Prost/Senna era.

These are stewards being selective in their interventions.