2024 Austrian Grand Prix - Race

[PURE PASSION]

Mercs gave LH title winning car 2014-2020
RB gave Vettel & Max title winning car 2010-2013 & 2021-2024
McLaren is strong contender next year.

Why Ferrari aren’t able to work around some driver & give a championship car? Alonso/Vettel & now Charles.

You will always have no.1 driver in your team & team should work around him. That’s how RB & Mercs were dominant.

I just simply see Ferrari wasting Leclerc’s talent here. We are seeing only glimpses of his skill here & there either in quali or in couple of races that’s it.

2026 is the only hope for me. If it doesn’t work out, leclerc better switch to other team.

Today once again it’s proved that only Leclerc can take fight to Max.

Ι Have the filling that after the good old days ,when that magic team lift Ferraris name to the stratosphere, since then everyone who took the wheel of the team in his hand ( from presidents to TD & TP) had in his mind to make a name on his own . They didn't see the big picture and how truly they could make the team deliver on stable basis. The 1st problem was to always put the blame on someone else .
Now i thought that with Vasseur all this could change ,and especially with Lec ,since he knows him so much even from F2 ,and from Elkans words , i was expecting a defacto No1 for Lec. Unfortunately till n

[The Hajj]

Here's 2 videos (side-by-side) of the same track on the same corner.

1st video is Leclerc vs Max and look how much Leclerc squeezes Max outside going into the corner. Max's car is almost halfway off the track.

2nd video is Max vs Lando and look how much Max squeezes Lando outside going into the corner. Nothing like what Max did with Leclerc.


One is experienced (Max) and the other is not(Lando). Yes, Max got the penalty with the Lando incident.


https://twitter.com/Willseh14/status...98318194397537

Those clips show exactly how Norris should have handled the situation. I watched the race with a few people that don’t know F1 and they all agreed that Norris caused the incident by turning into Max.

I think F1 drivers have become too soft. The constant whining on the radio is ridiculous. They sound like little school boys ratting out their classmates to the teacher.

Max is driving like a true racer. If the others can’t handle the pressure, give up their salaries and rides to men who can do it.

[jgonzalesm6]

Those clips show exactly how Norris should have handled the situation. I watched the race with a few people that don’t know F1 and they all agreed that Norris caused the incident by turning into Max.

I think F1 drivers have become too soft. The constant whining on the radio is ridiculous. They sound like little school boys ratting out their classmates to the teacher.

Max is driving like a true racer. If the others can’t handle the pressure, give up their salaries and rides to men who can do it.

We are witnessing the sterilization and sanitation of F1 of what it used to be going into a turn. Many F1 drivers have fought for the corner either side-by-side or when one is in front of the other....and most of the times, they both take each other out OR damage is inflicted on either both cars or one car. Again, this has been going on in F1 for a loooooong time.

[racingbradley]

I too look back on the glory days of the dream team and still hope that Vasseur has the makings of a Jean Todt with his no nonsense hard nosed attitude. I think he is gradually building a team around him but he needs to nominate his no 1 driver (oh please let that not be Lewis next year) Jean Todt took 4 years to build his dream team and show real results. I remember Michael and Eddie having DNFs as they struggled with the car.

Maybe we need to keep the faith a little longer.

[Greig]

This "move-under-braking" rule is nothing new to F1. I have seen many F1 drivers move under braking since Prost/Senna era.

These are stewards being selective in their interventions.

Introduced due to Mad Max - https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...moving-braking

[Greig]

The difference is Max took a way wider racing line under Leclerc and came underneath Leclerc.

Lando could have done the same as he had ALOT of room to his left, but didn't.

Hamilton did the same thing with Rosberg in 2016 in Austria and took a wider line going into the turn with Rosberg, unfortunately Rosberg whom had alot of room into the turn chose to squeeze Hamilton outside. Rosberg was at fault for that move as Hamilton gave Rosberg alot of room.

You and this "RedBull fan" is really getting old.

I have given you 2 examples and all you reply is to demean my character....it's sad really.

The difference is Max moved under braking, caused a collision and got a 10s penalty and 2 points on his license.

[Greig]

I watched the race with a few people that don’t know F1 and they all agreed that Norris caused the incident by turning into Max.

Max caused the incident by turning left in the braking, hence he was hit with penalties.

[Tifoso Svedese]

Nanny state officiating is the only reason Max got penalised for an obvious race incident. He's done way worse than this in the past and gotten away with it. If someone is still bitter about Abu Dhabi 2021 and how Michael still is tied for 7 WDC, it should not let them influence your thoughts on it. F1 should get rid of stewards but for excessive dangerous driving, they're not fit for purpose. Max ruined his own race, which was enough of a penalty in its own right. The other penalties called out were also farcical. Piastri getting nailed for going off into the gravel trap in qualifying, then Norris +5 seconds for going off and losing time, then +5 seconds for Hamilton for dashing over a line and the hilarious fine for Tsunoda for an obvious heat of the moment temper tantrum. Like I said earlier, it's time to ask questions of Pirelli why their tyres go off like balloons for the slightest of taps when that didn't use to be the case back in the Bridgestone days. When I saw Norris out for a clash I imagined there was a proper whack and a suspension being bent halfway to Vienna, not a 100 kph tyre nudge. Then people call that dangerous driving. It's ludicrous. Drivers themselves need to respect each other and also learn to back out of situations if there is not enough room.

The racing line is that you go all the way to the left with a slight angle under braking and then turn in because of the acute angle of the corner. It and Bahrain 9/10 are the only corners on the calendar where moving under braking is part of the racing line. The little kink before forces you towards the centre of the track by a few inches so you have to move back or else you will hit the corner in the wrong angle and destroy your rear tyres on the exit. I know that because I've probably done that corner at least 25,000 times in various video games for 25 years. If you take the acute angle your car will be as mobile as a double decker bus and unless a driver is fully alongside you will be wary of that. Then again, the people who are the angriest are also the biggest members of the track limits fan club. In other words, they think that you can see your wheels in relation to the white line from way underneath a halo, think Niels Wittich is a high priest, and don't understand how an F1 vehicle is driven.

Also, Norris comes across as really weak in decisive situations and looks nowhere ready to win a title. When Charles had a race-winning car he was mostly let down by the team and the engine, but Lando does it all by himself. Messes up starts, overtakes and chokes in qualifying. Mind you, I'd still rather had him than Hamilton for sure because he's not past his prime yet, but Charles is the better driver of the two. If he had the McLaren with a competent team principal and race engineer he'd be knocking on the door for the title.

To summarize, vast numbers of 'F1 fans' from a certain island really are anti-Max cult members and it's quite sad Whoever is trying to stop the latest chosen kid from one the villages of Moneypile in Eliteshire to win gets piled on, be it Michael, Fernando, Sebastian or Max, but above all the entire Ferrari team. It's been like that ever since Damon fumbled in a superior car against Michael twice during the Benetton years and with social media it's gotten worse. Not everyone is, that's important to distinguish and it's mostly funny rather than malicious.

[Scuderia rossa]

Which pretty much means that those upgrades are nothing but downgrades. Doesn't matter how many number of downforce they are producing, if those numbers don't translate on track.
Right now, because of porpoising, the whole platform is unstable and forcing the mechanics to raise the floor more than its optimal height, resulting in less downforce.

Actually no! The upgrade was to achieve more downforce levels which was the desired goal and they achieved that goal according to the team’s measurements ! The suspension layout (designed as inherent part of the initial project) cannot cope with the additional load generated. That means that (in my opinion) the problem lies in the suspension and cannot be redesigned without vastl structural changes in the chassis, not an easy task considering budget cap restrictions! And here’s the catch, Cardille himself told to the press that they have experimented with other teams suspension solution and they didn’t find tangible advantage 🤷*♂️

[Scuderia rossa]

Here is an interesting article on the challenges our team is facing
https://t.co/Wwbg1DT9lG

[Tifoso Svedese]

Actually no! The upgrade was to achieve more downforce levels which was the desired goal and they achieved that goal according to the team’s measurements ! The suspension layout (designed as inherent part of the initial project) cannot cope with the additional load generated. That means that (in my opinion) the problem lies in the suspension and cannot be redesigned without vastl structural changes in the chassis, not an easy task considering budget cap restrictions! And here’s the catch, Cardille himself told to the press that they have experimented with other teams suspension solution and they didn’t find tangible advantage ��*♂️

Engineering is about the end result not numbers on a spreadsheet. If you have an inadequate suspension design you need to consider that before bringing an update which causes excessive load on other parts of the car. Above all, finding a new suspension layout for 2025 would be a must but you can't have on paper updates that make the car slower just because the CFD tells you they're great.

[Scuderia rossa]

Engineering is about the end result not numbers on a spreadsheet. If you have an inadequate suspension design you need to consider that before bringing an update which causes excessive load on other parts of the car. Above all, finding a new suspension layout for 2025 would be a must but you can't have on paper updates that make the car slower just because the CFD tells you they're great.

Well the update delivered the desired result but the shortcomings(?) from the initial design is costing us 🕰️. And that’s not a correlation issue but inability to foresee this happening which is Cardille’s fault in my opinion as he is the TD and he clearly stated that other suspension layout designs don’t provide additional benefit! But from what we’ve seen other teams don’t get plagued by porpoising so… when there’s smoke there is fire!

[Scuderia rossa]

Did he really return to his old ways or is this just what he does? I think we've just forgotten about his unsportsman like behaviour because he's never been under much pressure these past seasons. It's easy to be a clean driver when your almost always at the front and able to drive of into the sunset by lap 3. If anything, Mclaren is showing that Max is still the same maniac he was when he was a rookie in the sport.

+1!

[jgonzalesm6]

Nanny state officiating is the only reason Max got penalised for an obvious race incident. He's done way worse than this in the past and gotten away with it. If someone is still bitter about Abu Dhabi 2021 and how Michael still is tied for 7 WDC, it should not let them influence your thoughts on it. F1 should get rid of stewards but for excessive dangerous driving, they're not fit for purpose. Max ruined his own race, which was enough of a penalty in its own right. The other penalties called out were also farcical. Piastri getting nailed for going off into the gravel trap in qualifying, then Norris +5 seconds for going off and losing time, then +5 seconds for Hamilton for dashing over a line and the hilarious fine for Tsunoda for an obvious heat of the moment temper tantrum. Like I said earlier, it's time to ask questions of Pirelli why their tyres go off like balloons for the slightest of taps when that didn't use to be the case back in the Bridgestone days. When I saw Norris out for a clash I imagined there was a proper whack and a suspension being bent halfway to Vienna, not a 100 kph tyre nudge. Then people call that dangerous driving. It's ludicrous. Drivers themselves need to respect each other and also learn to back out of situations if there is not enough room.

The racing line is that you go all the way to the left with a slight angle under braking and then turn in because of the acute angle of the corner. It and Bahrain 9/10 are the only corners on the calendar where moving under braking is part of the racing line. The little kink before forces you towards the centre of the track by a few inches so you have to move back or else you will hit the corner in the wrong angle and destroy your rear tyres on the exit. I know that because I've probably done that corner at least 25,000 times in various video games for 25 years. If you take the acute angle your car will be as mobile as a double decker bus and unless a driver is fully alongside you will be wary of that. Then again, the people who are the angriest are also the biggest members of the track limits fan club. In other words, they think that you can see your wheels in relation to the white line from way underneath a halo, think Niels Wittich is a high priest, and don't understand how an F1 vehicle is driven.

Also, Norris comes across as really weak in decisive situations and looks nowhere ready to win a title. When Charles had a race-winning car he was mostly let down by the team and the engine, but Lando does it all by himself. Messes up starts, overtakes and chokes in qualifying. Mind you, I'd still rather had him than Hamilton for sure because he's not past his prime yet, but Charles is the better driver of the two. If he had the McLaren with a competent team principal and race engineer he'd be knocking on the door for the title.

To summarize, vast numbers of 'F1 fans' from a certain island really are anti-Max cult members and it's quite sad Whoever is trying to stop the latest chosen kid from one the villages of Moneypile in Eliteshire to win gets piled on, be it Michael, Fernando, Sebastian or Max, but above all the entire Ferrari team. It's been like that ever since Damon fumbled in a superior car against Michael twice during the Benetton years and with social media it's gotten worse. Not everyone is, that's important to distinguish and it's mostly funny rather than malicious.

So what if I told you that Max avoided Norris 2x on the same turn(T3) on the same track on the same race. Max was on the outside and Norris was on the inside on both occasions (lap59 and lap63). Max was pushed by Norris on both occasions so much that Max ended up off the track. Again, Max is tuned in on what Norris's driving trajectory on both occasions to avoid a collision with Norris. On lap64, where the collision happens, Norris is NOT tuned in to what Max's trajectory and does not avoid Max. Max does deserve a penalty but you can see one driver is experienced on what the other is doing 2x and the other is not(3x).

I have the video of lap 59, 63, and 64 of the occasions should you like to see it.

[Greig]

So what if I told you that Max avoided Norris 2x on the same turn(T3) on the same track on the same race. Max was on the outside and Norris was on the inside on both occasions (lap59 and lap63). Max was pushed by Norris on both occasions so much that Max ended up off the track. Again, Max is tuned in on what Norris's driving trajectory on both occasions to avoid a collision with Norris. On lap64, where the collision happens, Norris is NOT tuned in to what Max's trajectory and does not avoid Max. Max does deserve a penalty but you can see one driver is experienced on what the other is doing 2x and the other is not(3x).

I have the video of lap 59, 63, and 64 of the occasions should you like to see it.

Easy to avoid a driver when they are not moving into your line while braking, duh

[jgonzalesm6]

Easy to avoid a driver when they are not moving into your line while braking, duh

ummm, both instances where Max avoided crashing into Norris is where both times Norris came from behind Max and overshot the corner whereby both drivers ended up off the track.

On lap 64, Max was in front of Norris and Norris could not avoid Max. It wasn't even a hard left from Max but a gradual left from Max.

[PURE PASSION]

Charles Leclerc says the downforce from the upgrades is expected, but the new package has brought some limitations that Ferrari must examine. He says Silverstone will be another tough weekend as they do not have a solution at the moment.

“The downforce from the new package is as expected and I confirm that, but this has brought other limitations that we need to examine, because since we introduced it we have had some difficulties.”

"I feel like Silverstone is going to be another tough weekend for us. If you look at the last three weekends we've struggled, so we haven't found a solution to improve things yet."

[jgonzalesm6]

Vettel "moving under braking" against Hamilton on the same track and same corner squeezing Hamilton to the outside.

https://twitter.com/OhmDawg/status/1807848104663867842






Overhead view of the Max and Lando incident.

https://twitter.com/jpappone/status/1807442876651000261





Eddie Jordan has a say on the Max and Lando incident.

https://x.com/F1ForSuccess/status/1807827605111869668

[racingbradley]

EJ is right about this crash. I don't know why so many have jumped to Lando's defense.

[Brembo]

Lando is british ,Belgin nationality!

[Scuderia rossa]

Charles Leclerc says the downforce from the upgrades is expected, but the new package has brought some limitations that Ferrari must examine. He says Silverstone will be another tough weekend as they do not have a solution at the moment.

“The downforce from the new package is as expected and I confirm that, but this has brought other limitations that we need to examine, because since we introduced it we have had some difficulties.”

"I feel like Silverstone is going to be another tough weekend for us. If you look at the last three weekends we've struggled, so we haven't found a solution to improve things yet."

From Ferrari FRA (twitter):

“Ferrari: why is the team in a deadlock and how to get out of it? Barcelona's package aimed for the future but blocks the present. There is an urgent need to find solutions, but it is not easy. Explanations.

- It was at Imola that the first package arrived, the intention of which was clearly to make the first improvements, but above all to modify the aerodynamic map of the car in order to prepare it for what was to come afterwards. And indeed, the Imola package made it possible to take a first step forward on the track, which seems to point in the right direction.

- The problem comes from the Barcelona package: the increased load resulted in much greater aerodynamic rebound than expected. The suspension system, designed for the original SF-24 concept, does not seem to be able to handle the increased load and the way it is generated by the new concept, especially when cornering. Consequently, the load is there but the performance is destroyed by the effect of the rebound: to try to absorb the rebound, we can lift the car from the ground but with the consequence of a loss of load and efficiency, otherwise it is necessary try to grit your teeth but you end up with a car which, with the rebound, becomes almost impossible to drive in fast corners due to the continuous change of the aerodynamic map and the load fluctuations that the driver cannot manage.

- It is clear that there is no going back, since the path identified is probably the best, as also indicated by the similarities with what was seen at Red Bull and McLaren, but the budgetary ceiling and the tight schedule prevent a change in the suspension setup for this year. At the same time, even if we renounce any objective for the current season, development must necessarily continue, because the car of 2025 will have as its starting point that of 2024.”

[Greig]

Eddie Jordan needs to brush up on his F1 rule book before commenting.

[jgonzalesm6]

Eddie Jordan needs to brush up on his F1 rule book before commenting.

I guess Peter Windsor as well as he has commented on the incident as well.

[Greig]

I guess Peter Windsor as well as he has commented on the incident as well.

Yeah if he does not know the rules.

[jgonzalesm6]

Yeah if he does not know the rules.

That's your own hypothetical analysis. Like both EJ and Windsor aren't knowledgeable of said current rules in F1. Like they have no idea what they are talking about!

Amazing replies from you.

[Greig]

That's your own hypothetical analysis. Like both EJ and Windsor aren't knowledgeable of said current rules in F1. Like they have no idea what they are talking about!

Amazing replies from you.

Max got a penalty for causing a collision and license points. Makes no difference what Windsor and Jordan who are Red Bull fans say.

[FerrariF60]

Max got a penalty for causing a collision and license points. Makes no difference what Windsor and Jordan who are Red Bull fans say.

^this, i could NOT agree more