but we had no bouncing in previous races.Originally Posted by subfire91
so is it our suspension that makes the car bounce?? setup?? or the new upgraded floor introduced bouncing again?
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but we had no bouncing in previous races.
so is it our suspension that makes the car bounce?? setup?? or the new upgraded floor introduced bouncing again?
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Ground effect cars will always bounce and there's no way to eliminate that completely. These cars need to run with an extremely stiff suspension in order to keep the floor as low as possible, otherwise they are not going to produce good lap times. The trick is to make it manageable, something many haven't managed to mastered it yet.
Now what the Italian media is saying, to me, it sounds nothing but speculation. Yes, Ferrari indeed lowered the front floor roof/fence, which maybe producing more raw downforce. They also used a less loaded rear wing, which explains the speed on the straights (non-DRS). But we still possible can't know the reason/reasons for this sudden drop in performance compared to our main competitors. Only Ferrari know this. And hopefully, they will soon get on top of this.
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basically what i understand from what their mention is that the upgrades produced the extra downforce for what they were intended for but either the team set the suspension softer than they should therefore could not cope with extra downforce and increasing bouncing as a result or the suspension hit a structural lumitation
whether is true or not i dont know but Fred mentioned that the increased load was confirmed by the sensors on the car
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No point introducing upgrades if the engineers have no idea of setting the car up come park ferme.This has been the trend lately it's a real cross your fingers and hope for the best scenario, this does not pass the pub test.Maclaren seem to have the car that set up offers little challenge ahead of redbull.Andrea Stella has done one hell of a job.Mercedes have progressed well that front wing has put them in the mix,at this point we are racing mercedes as maclaren are racing redbull,but as we know in f1 you either keep up and pass with development or you get left behind ,just ask Fernando Alonso and Aston Martin.
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How challenging it must be for Carlos having to win over Merc as best his Ferrari will get him and at the same time want Merc to give him a 2025 seat.
Ferrari Affiliate
Adding to your assertion, I will say that this whole thing sounds like that there was not a fundamental issue with the car but rather a setup issue.
I am hopeful that next race they will tweak things with the setup in order for the bouncing will either be minimized or gone altogether.
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
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i agree.
they solved porpoising. so whatever they did to do that, suspensioin changes, wasn't able to cope with the additional load points. maybe they got more load out of the updates than they were expecting. hopefully it's just some setup differences, and we don't need a suspension update too now.
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Well, if they really managed to increase the overall load, then they'll need to reinforce the suspension. I don't think Spain had anything to do with the setup, because a setup issue wouldn't have caused our drivers to take their foot off the throttle in one particular high speed corner, which was turn 14. I think Ferrari were forced to raise the ride height, which resultant in a loss in overall performance. Charles was the 3rd fastest car, but he had no answers to the pace of Max and Norris, which wasn't the case in Miami, Imola and Monaco.
But let's see how Austria will turn out. Its not a high aero load circuit like Barcelona, which may help us a bit.
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Austria track is 700m above sea level.
7% less air density so 7% less downforce. Teams will try to get back that loss of downforce with medium-load wings.
It's not how start but how you finish.
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Only 5 teams brought updates. Ferrari was one of them. They brought cooling louvers to the SF24.
It's not how start but how you finish.
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that alone can easily give them couple of tenths....lmao
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so seems that we are right back to the situation we were in last year with the designer of last years car gone and now cardile is gone with no influence on his car.thats why we are ware we are.there is no stablization at the factory
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The car now has very good downforce on slow corners but bounces very much on high speed corners so the drivers can not take those turns at the limit
It's opposite to the car's characteristic earlier in the season: great in high speed corners, average on slow corners
Silverstone with many high speed corners will be a pain
bonne chance Charles
Oh dear it sounds like we will have another lack lustre weekend to follow. I was hoping for a better race. Maybe the car/drivers will surprise us.
Forza Jules
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Carlos really needs a win ! Maybe he will brighten up the action come this next race. I'm sure Charles will keep him honest.
Salut Gilles
Hopefully
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fingers crossed
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Question: can the team remove all the upgrades from Barcelona and revert to the Imola spec ?
Because the updrages in Barcelona do not add any laptime to the SF24, the Imola spec was still up there with McLaren and Red Bull, and comfortably faster than Mercedes
Given how little the McLaren and Red Bull brought their upgrades since Imola, I still think the Imola spec can still hang in there with them
Next few tracks are are almost front limited with many high speed, long radius corners, which the old SF24 was the beast at driving them
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i can't see WHY the team could not remove them and revert to Imola spec sf-24....but what would that say about our team and thier ability to bring succesful upgrades to the car.....if the car all of a sudden becomes competitive again with Imola package ONLY, then the team look like clowns, NO??
so just for that i doubt Ferrari will revert back.
George Kabardis
Im pretty sure the other teams, especially Merc, have grown quite a lot since Imola. So don't see something good going back to that stage. We still be 4th fastest ( if not lower since Alpine has grown too) just with an easier car to drive.
From what i read , the Imola package didn't designed to bring so much performance, but more to start a new aerodynamic platform. It was the base where the 2nd package ( Silverstone witch moved forward to Spain ) will add the performance by adding more load.Whar happened next we see it and we have discussed it a kot in here.
Last edited by PURE PASSION; Yesterday at 21:24.
George Kabardis
In Silverstone, RedBull , McL and Merc will bring upgrades.
We will try to set up the car correctly.
Although it loos like a loss already, I'm not worriedso much the others will gain but if we will find any solutions. My biggest fear (about the teams fate this year) is that we will jot gonna find any proper solutions to run the car at 100%.
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proper solution mate would be front pull rod and rear push rod suspensions....mclaren have taken OR copied red bull in that approach and they are SHINING.....but what do i i know, i'n NOT an aerodynamicist, Cardile said that suspension doesn't matter, it's all in the AERO; look at where we are now, FOURTH fastest team
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proper solution mate would be front pull rod and rear push rod suspensions....mclaren have taken OR copied red bull in that approach and they are SHINING.....but what do i i know, i'm NOT an aerodynamicist, Cardile said that suspension doesn't matter, it's all in the AERO; look at where we are now, FOURTH fastest team
George Kabardis
Unfortunately it's not a simple task of just design a suspension to a specific format (pull / push ). You have to have the knowledge to design it good to almost perfect so that you can use it on its full potential . It's it looks that our current (few not the newcomers) engineers don't have that knowledge.
They would design a front pull rod and be worst then our current push.
Hope that the new engineers can put their hands on this too!!!
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Exactly! That's what I'm saying! Let's just hope that Loic Serra and his profound knowledge of chassis - suspension will give us the boost we needed! Aero wise I think we are pretty decent!
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Ferrari have all the resources in the world but if your engineers are not creative with development you will have problems.The ferrari upgrades have indeed gone back wards and the new floor is the issue,clearly this upgrade has effected the car massively. Engineers are the force of any team with continuity, ferrari is a revolving door with many comings and goings and hence the development issues.like a great football side it takes a top skill base combined with time and continuity.Ferrari lost Stella to maclaren who was part of this current ferrari.Look at maclaren now,mercedes with a new front wing doing well it tells me engineers hard at work and creative problem solving ones at that,ferrari really have to look at their skills base.
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yeah, but something makes me wonder if we missed something by not going front pull rod
i know Merc don't have it either, but they are not that much better than us and they're NOT challenging red bull for wins by any means
i'm not saying taht the team will change to front pull rod for next year, given that next year is the LAST year in these regulations and investing that much money and time for ONE year does NOT make any sense....given that red bull have had that suspension since 2022.....we WILL NEVER CATCH THEM UP, only by some sort of miracle.....by yeah, NEVER catch them up
Full Member
Yeah surely it's difficult to catch a team which is having the knowledge of all technical secrets of the current era of regulations! But you never give up! We just need a good TP, which in this case I think we've found in the face of Fred, who will transform the team by bringing talent and create the conditions (stability) to perform at it's best. Ferrari never gives up, it's not in our culture! we are the most historical team in F1! Ferrari is F1 and F1 is Ferrari! But it will take time. Look at all the great TP's (Jean Todd, Ross Brown, Horner) they were ruthless, created a stable environment of the best technical departments in their time o f domination!
George Kabardis
The problem we have entered in the last 15 years is that we are in an endless circle. We supposedly fixing a team that we are waiting of them to deliver in 2-3 years . If they dont we are all over them and we demand changes, and then all over again. In these 15years the team have changed at least 5 times. From the TP to the cleaner lady.
w
When im thinking it i truly cant find the correct answer because both are right.
When a team doesn't deliver is it bacause they need more time, something must have missed them witch is all right just give them more time to find it later? Or is it that they actually are not top notch so we have to let them go and bring better ones??
When we are facing the problems,all of us and especially the media/journalist experts are more or less shouting that it's the 2nd. But when an engineer leave and goes to another teams and thrives,then again they complain to the bosses that they didn't give them more time or the right environment for them to work.
So to me it's not a simple answer. None is as none is for the technical advices we hear in here and especially on the net by the "experts". The solutions unfortunately is more complicated and a bit more about luck. To come to a state and time where the people you have ,1st have the knowledge to think a clever solution to a matter 2nly to work well each other with none try to present himself better the the other so to take the credits and the bosses to provide the necessary space-freedom-resources to them. When a team after comes and goings, achieve this kind of environment,then they start deliver.
In McL Stella was there for almost 10 yesrs and couldn't do anything until last year . Someone could "we had him for 10 years what has he done"? And then the promoted him to TP ,some engineers came and all of a sudden, after 8years of them fighting for the last places , everything starts working again and they transferred to a winning team again.
We had engineers like Also Costs that fired him in 2011 saying that he can't design any proper car (we had prof because the actual cars that he had designed foe us didn't perform) and then he went to Merc and won 5-6-7 championships being a of the most valuable people of that winning team.
So what now ? We let Cardile go because his cars reach a level and stop ther, have limitations. ?
And the next? How much time do we give them? Thats answers that only the TP can answer and for the TP ( if HE is worthy or not) Elkann.
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