SF23 Discussion Thread

**Aviamata** · 13th July 2023, 13:12

Originally Posted by RossTheBoss

The UK teams are the ones that realized that Ferrari's testing machine was a beast they had to stop. Even Newey was no match against it once it was perfected. Nothing beats real world testing, where you can roll the car straight out of the factory and start conducting laps.

Every racing organization has its strengths and weaknesses. Mercedes is power units, Red Bull is aero, and Ferrari's was testing. The latter totally forfeited their strength in the most massive self own in motorsports.

Ferrari don't have to get used to it. At any time, they could threaten their withdrawal from F1 if their interests are not respected. Renault did it, Red Bull did it. If Ferrari announced they were exiting F1, and taking their full operations to WEC or some other racing series, overnight F1 would implode. The DTS fans would be gone. Races would be cancelled, TV contracts and prize money would be in jeopardy. F1 needs Ferrari for more than Ferrari need F1, but for some reason, Ferrari lack the political spine to use this leverage over the sport in the way they need to in order for their strengths to shine.

Back in the day , Enzo used to threaten FIA to accept his favourite V12s . Now Elkan can't do anything other than sacking Team Principle...

**Brembo** · 13th July 2023, 21:14

Ferrari fans favorite driver is Charles! Until he can out drive with more points and finish ahead of Carlos ; Ferrari will suffer fan wise. There's no room for team orders as far as who is deserving.

**Brembo** · 13th July 2023, 21:31

If Carlos should win a race Ferrari fans will just move on to the next race; with no mention of Carlos' win. The car; the pit stop ; the tires ; whatever it takes to keep Charles as the !!!! should have won driver. More than the gas in the car ; that mentality is what fuels Carlos ! Points ! WCC !

**Brembo** · 14th July 2023, 02:03

Originally Posted by Brembo

If Carlos should win a race Ferrari fans will just move on to the next race; with no mention of Carlos' win. The car; the pit stop ; the tires ; whatever it takes to keep Charles as the !!!! should have won driver. More than the gas in the car ; that mentality is what fuels Carlos ! Points ! WCC !

Neither Lewis; Max; Charles or Carlos want to change teams any time soon. A podium win is the best that will happen unless Alonso can get lucky too!

**tifosi1993** · 14th July 2023, 13:08

They should pull a Aston Martin and copy-paste the RB19 for next year's car. They are incapable of developing the fastest car/concept, so they should throw whatever "pride" they have in the bin and start following the aero master Newey.
Aston and Mclaren both have already proven that copy-posting the RB is the way to go.

**FerrariF60** · 14th July 2023, 13:58

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

They should pull a Aston Martin and copy-paste the RB19 for next year's car. They are incapable of developing the fastest car/concept, so they should throw whatever "pride" they have in the bin and start following the aero master Newey.
Aston and Mclaren both have already proven that copy-posting the RB is the way to go.

i'm with you on this, but Ferrari is too proud in not doing this and do their own mediocre work instead.....hence not winning anything for more then 15 years and counting

**tifosi1993** · 14th July 2023, 14:36

Originally Posted by FerrariF60

i'm with you on this, but Ferrari is too proud in not doing this and do their own mediocre work instead.....hence not winning anything for more then 15 years and counting

Yeah. It is indeed quite arrogant attitude from those people who haven't achieved anything in F1. Yes, Ferrari is the most successful team in F1 and working there is a thing of pride. But the current bunch has been nothing but failure and dragging Ferrari's name through the mud due to their incompetence.

Mclaren have already brought two major upgrades this year and each upgrade made them gain huge performance uplift. From zero points to finishing P2 and P4 in one of the fastest and complete track in F1. Ferrari on the other hand, even with all the upgrades, is stayed the same. Good on Saturdays most of the time, and occasionally good on Sundays. But still no answers to Red Bull's pace.

This team, or more precisely, the people it employs, is not going to win titles in F1. With Luck, it may be able to win an odd race or two but that's about it. All the best and talented peoples are working for our rivals. And with budget cap, all the shortcomings that have been plaguing this team since 2009 are out in the open. It can no longer pour millions of dollars and lift itself from predicaments as it used to.

**RossTheBoss** · 14th July 2023, 15:06

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Yeah. It is indeed quite arrogant attitude from those people who haven't achieved anything in F1. Yes, Ferrari is the most successful team in F1 and working there is a thing of pride. But the current bunch has been nothing but failure and dragging Ferrari's name through the mud due to their incompetence.

Mclaren have already brought two major upgrades this year and each upgrade made them gain huge performance uplift. From zero points to finishing P2 and P4 in one of the fastest and complete track in F1. Ferrari on the other hand, even with all the upgrades, is stayed the same. Good on Saturdays most of the time, and occasionally good on Sundays. But still no answers to Red Bull's pace.

This team, or more precisely, the people it employs, is not going to win titles in F1. With Luck, it may be able to win an odd race or two but that's about it. All the best and talented peoples are working for our rivals. And with budget cap, all the shortcomings that have been plaguing this team since 2009 are out in the open. It can no longer pour millions of dollars and lift itself from predicaments as it used to.

Well, lets wait and see if McLaren's pace last more than one race before we praise them.

Ferrari's problem deepest problem isn't the people. Don't get me wrong, Binotto and Reuda went around in clown shoes. But even before them, Ferrari had talent. Allison, Tombazis, and Fry were not idiots. They've succeeded in the past and with other teams (Allison).

It's the equipment. Ferrari's simulator rigs are garbage. Even the best technical minds are going to struggle with it. Newey embraced the era of simulation, and has mastered it in a way that Ferrari have never been able to.

Ferrari's strength is real world testing at their tracks. That was the Ferrari magic. Make it at the factory, test it within literally hours of it being fabricated. We can see that magic can still work when you look at how awesome Ferrari is in WEC right now. If Ferrari allowed just say, 500-1000km of testing, overnight the team what transform - guarantee it.

The problem is the political leadership sucks. They're unwilling to do what Red Bull have done twice now: threaten to leave F1 if they're not accommodated.

The team deserve a lot of criticism, but much of their struggles are down to political loses.

**FerrariF60** · 14th July 2023, 15:07

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Yeah. It is indeed quite arrogant attitude from those people who haven't achieved anything in F1. Yes, Ferrari is the most successful team in F1 and working there is a thing of pride. But the current bunch has been nothing but failure and dragging Ferrari's name through the mud due to their incompetence.

Mclaren have already brought two major upgrades this year and each upgrade made them gain huge performance uplift. From zero points to finishing P2 and P4 in one of the fastest and complete track in F1. Ferrari on the other hand, even with all the upgrades, is stayed the same. Good on Saturdays most of the time, and occasionally good on Sundays. But still no answers to Red Bull's pace.

This team, or more precisely, the people it employs, is not going to win titles in F1. With Luck, it may be able to win an odd race or two but that's about it. All the best and talented peoples are working for our rivals. And with budget cap, all the shortcomings that have been plaguing this team since 2009 are out in the open. It can no longer pour millions of dollars and lift itself from predicaments as it used to.

i totally agree with you on all your points you just made

a lot of people of this forum like to sugar coat the performance Ferrari has put as of late AND/OR for the past 15 years, and they think that yeah, is OK'ish when in reality they just absolutely SUCK....and with the mentality they have, its' gonna take them another couple of decades before they'll win another championship, IF EVER....

i'm a die hard ferrari fan, and i understand that we must go through bad periods before it gets better....but that BETTER, when is it gonna come????

OK, rant over....

**Ferrari312T4** · 14th July 2023, 16:03

Our strategy is a hit or a total miss. Last race at Silverstone they threw away a lot of points by pitting early and making bad tire choices. It's like they are napping and not reading the race as it unfolds on track. Perez could go ridiculously long on those new model Pirelli tires. Didn't he start on softs? However we couldn't match the pace of RB or McLaren's anyway.

And its pretty clear that we are missing on aero and strategy. Fred has some hiring and firing to do. Perhaps losing Laurent Mekkies to Alpha Tauri is a blessing in disguise.

**Brembo** · 16th July 2023, 00:21

Charles has $20 million locked up thru 2024 @ Ferrari and he loves being there so he says. All he seems to have to do is show up. Let Carlos score the points for 1/2 the pay! Then there's Fred; What a team! Seb had to be really at peace with his 4WDCs and his pay to let Charles beat him up like he did @ Ferrari. Lewis is also in a great spot @ Merc. getting paid to play !

**PURE PASSION** · 16th July 2023, 15:11

Fred Vasseur's message to the Ferrari technical team is clear: the team wants to experiment with solutions on the SF-23 EVO to understand its behavior and make corrections to the 2024 project which will be entirely different.

Ι really like Vasseur's new mindset!!! THIS is the way to improve and how someone should work to find/correct any problems. The onlt question is our people's quality!!! Do they have the ability to find a smart solution and design a championship winning car ???
After all this years of disappointments and fails and people fired etc etc , the team is in the bottom of engineers choice, and the drivers dont make a line to came either !! But IF we manage to be truly and steady competitors with a friendly -steady environment in the factory, i think all the bad carma will turn shortly!!!!

**Aviamata** · 16th July 2023, 18:02

Originally Posted by PURE PASSION

Ι really like Vasseur's new mindset!!! THIS is the way to improve and how someone should work to find/correct any problems. The onlt question is our people's quality!!! Do they have the ability to find a smart solution and design a championship winning car ???
After all this years of disappointments and fails and people fired etc etc , the team is in the bottom of engineers choice, and the drivers dont make a line to came either !! But IF we manage to be truly and steady competitors with a friendly -steady environment in the factory, i think all the bad carma will turn shortly!!!!

I can't just take Fred's words entirely . Keep in mind that he is very good at calming the Italian media .

**PURE PASSION** · 16th July 2023, 21:21

Originally Posted by Aviamata

I can't just take Fred's words entirely . Keep in mind that he is very good at calming the Italian media .

Perhaps. Just need any good news to raise my hopes/mood a bit because I read bad news- rumors about every day.

**racingbradley** · 16th July 2023, 21:53

Originally Posted by PURE PASSION

Perhaps. Just need any good news to raise my hopes/mood a bit because I read bad news- rumors about every day.

Ferrari will improve. They cannot get any worse so the only way is up.

**paolo lalli** · 18th July 2023, 06:03

If the italian media backed off somewhat it would be a massive plus for ferrari,any opportunity that arises to kick ferrari to the kerb they will always have and always will.

**Brembo** · 18th July 2023, 23:38

Originally Posted by paolo lalli

If the italian media backed off somewhat it would be a massive plus for ferrari,any opportunity that arises to kick ferrari to the kerb they will always have and always will.

They are getting their info from this forum!!!

**tifosi1993** · 19th July 2023, 04:31

And how on earth Italian media would know about Fred's message to his colleagues and staffs? Another clickbait rubbish.

**tifosi1993** · 19th July 2023, 04:34

Originally Posted by racingbradley

Ferrari will improve. They cannot get any worse so the only way is up.

Oh it can go much worse.

Ferrari had already "enjoyed" quite a few up-down period since 2008. Let's just say, their "down period" was quite down and their "on the rise" period was not that high.

**Aviamata** · 19th July 2023, 05:54

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Oh it can go much worse.

Ferrari had already "enjoyed" quite a few up-down period since 2008. Let's just say, their "down period" was quite down and their "on the rise" period was not that high.

Ferrari is the team that has the most ''If'' scenario relevant to WDC/WCC since 2008 . These ''down period'' just ruined everything

**racingbradley** · 19th July 2023, 19:01

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Oh it can go much worse.

Ferrari had already "enjoyed" quite a few up-down period since 2008. Let's just say, their "down period" was quite down and their "on the rise" period was not that high.

I was trying to be optimistic but seems it back fired.

**Brembo** · 19th July 2023, 19:46

Originally Posted by racingbradley

I was trying to be optimistic but seems it back fired.

I agree with you; think positive at the start of each race. I really don't want either of our drivers to leave Ferrari. They are winners given a winning car!

**wisepie** · 20th July 2023, 16:44

We all try to think positive, hard though it is when our team manages to mess things up so often, our drivers are not the problem, but optimism is always tempered by doubt, sadly!

**RM-Ferrari** · 21st July 2023, 09:17

So it seems the "Top Guy" Vasseur was talking about is Loic Serra, not Pierre Wache

https://scuderiafans.com/revealed-wh...k-on-2025-car/

**racingbradley** · 21st July 2023, 11:17

Originally Posted by wisepie

We all try to think positive, hard though it is when our team manages to mess things up so often, our drivers are not the problem, but optimism is always tempered by doubt, sadly!

You are going all physiological on us Wisepie.

But yes optimism in this instance is tempered with fear that it could go back to say 2014 when Williams were passing us on the track.

**Aviamata** · 21st July 2023, 12:31

Originally Posted by RM-Ferrari

So it seems the "Top Guy" Vasseur was talking about is Loic Serra, not Pierre Wache

https://scuderiafans.com/revealed-wh...k-on-2025-car/

Definitely not some top RB guy . Horner won't allow us to do that

**Brembo** · 22nd July 2023, 00:27

I believe Charles wants to be #1 driver and is fighting hard for it. Carlos wants a pay raise equal to Charles and will fight for it on the track. Ferrari will not let either driver go; I hope! I'll be happy with the results being podiums or a win! If risking a driver safe DNF is what it takes ; go for it. Max did it coming up. Our drivers NEED a winning car! Meanwhile @ R Bull the big question is should they let Perez win another race or not. Dan is not any better than Perez.