SF23 Discussion Thread

[TTRSMAD]

It doesn’t change much with this year car (ferrari)

Damn it, it got a bit too excited with the news. The height of the cars stays the same. Ferrari need a way to get the floor to work effectively like the F1-75 at the beginning of the season.

The FIA needs to come out with a directive that handicaps Red Bull or the season is over.

[ferrari1.8t]

https://twitter.com/giulyduchessa/st...CYyPL2tiv8Wvfg

Looks like this won’t help Ferrari. Makes sense, the FIA would never do anything to help Ferrari be competitive

[tpe]

Our concept was to run the car as low as possible, aka almost no ground clearance. Running the car low on the straight means some of the downforce was turning into porpoising.
TD39 raised the floor height and stopped flexing of the floor aka porpoising. So Ferrari couldn't run the car as low as before and lost heaps of performance.

But I don't think the TD39 excuse is going to fly with this year's car. The stopped developing the F1-75 after France and pulled all resources on developing the SF23. And the end result is a car that not even that faster than its predecessor over the race distance.

Not exactly.
TD39 did nothing in the floor height. Also did nothing about flexibility.
All it did, was to introduce 2 key measures. Lateral acceleration, to measure the forces from porpoising and plank wear.

The fact is that teams increased the ride height for ANY of these measures (My guess is that Ferrari was hit by both of them).

The floor height increased by 15mm THIS year. And only at the edges of the floor.

Now, regarding the rumous about the silent deactivation of TD39. The rumours are not a boy the plank, but for the AOM sensor. So, Ferrari cannot re-introduce the same trick, simply because running the car lower will trim the plank.

[tpe]

On the air hand, for me, the most important news, sorry, rumours, are those about the simulator. If they are true, then some people sho update get fired. Not because they did a mistake, but simply because they demonstrated incompetence. You CANNOT develop a car based on ONE specific condition (soft springs, low ride height). During the development phase, yoy test as many combinations as possible. Then you go to the tests and verify which one is working and develop accordingly.

Apparently, they are not capable to develop the car theoretically, meaning they lack on the engineering dpt. If an F1 team needs a track test to understand which simulation works and which simulation doesn't work, it has an engineering issue, bacause engineers should be able to predict some of those behaviours.

[paneristi]

On the air hand, for me, the most important news, sorry, rumours, are those about the simulator. If they are true, then some people sho update get fired. Not because they did a mistake, but simply because they demonstrated incompetence. You CANNOT develop a car based on ONE specific condition (soft springs, low ride height). During the development phase, yoy test as many combinations as possible. Then you go to the tests and verify which one is working and develop accordingly.

Apparently, they are not capable to develop the car theoretically, meaning they lack on the engineering dpt. If an F1 team needs a track test to understand which simulation works and which simulation doesn't work, it has an engineering issue, bacause engineers should be able to predict some of those behaviours.

spot on.

[Cavallino]

On the air hand, for me, the most important news, sorry, rumours, are those about the simulator. If they are true, then some people sho update get fired. Not because they did a mistake, but simply because they demonstrated incompetence. You CANNOT develop a car based on ONE specific condition (soft springs, low ride height). During the development phase, yoy test as many combinations as possible. Then you go to the tests and verify which one is working and develop accordingly.

Apparently, they are not capable to develop the car theoretically, meaning they lack on the engineering dpt. If an F1 team needs a track test to understand which simulation works and which simulation doesn't work, it has an engineering issue, bacause engineers should be able to predict some of those behaviours.

so assuming Ferrari designed a car to run at the minimum ride height, let's say it's 5 mm, and probably within a reasonable range of that, you think they should also be running simulations with the car a foot off the ground?

it's not that they didn't try what they needed to try in the simulator, it's that in practice they can't run the car that low to the ground. now, if they could, then what i'm hoping it could be a magic bullet, and you would see the car a second a lap faster than the F1-75 as was claimed in the winter

[tpe]

When I got to a client, I run a PoC. Specific scenarios yes, but multiple basic ones. We CANNOT predict everything, but obviously since there are parameters that you can't control (in Ferrari's case opponents, tyres, FIA, etc), you run as many simulations/scenarios as possible.
It's clear that Ferrari run one specific scenario. I based this on the fact that 3 days in Bahrain they where lost, then in the race they were nowhere, then in Jeddha they run an opposite scenario .

So, yes, if your car is good at 5mm but then it sucks at 7mm, you have to either make it work at 7mm too, or find a compromise. Why?
Let's see. FIA has a terrible record I changing the rules midseason. Pirelli changes the tires all the time. If door example tyres pressures are higher, then the can could, theoretically, be raised my 1mm. Have you tested this?

From a front-running team I would expect such simulations.

[Tony]

Given the correlation issues, hopefully Ferrari can use Free Practices as test sessions to evaluate solutions. It's not ideal, but it should allow them to validate solutions for next year...

[Brembo]

Get up to the maximum HP and use it! Straight away's can get you up in the #1 spot!

[paolo lalli]

So we are going into round 3 and its all over already.? Then if that's case the season is a complete testing mule and as fans there will be no need for future negative comments and ferrari bashings given the current state of play its testing we are not racing any more ok.

[Brembo]

So we are going into round 3 and its all over already.? Then if that's case the season is a complete testing mule and as fans there will be no need for future negative comments and ferrari bashings given the current state of play its testing we are not racing any more ok.

Not O K ! Ferrari must still race to win! What's Alonso doing on the podiums !

[Super M]

Not O K ! Ferrari must still race to win! What's Alonso doing on the podiums !

Aaaah Alonso is showing Sainz how its done, nothing to speak of really......

[RM-Ferrari]

Big updates for Imola! Hope they work otherwise it's onto 2024

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-to-...idepod-design/

[nani_s23]

Big updates for Imola! Hope they work otherwise it's onto 2024

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-to-...idepod-design/

I don’t trust this source. Most of them are unreliable.

[jgonzalesm6]

Big updates for Imola! Hope they work otherwise it's onto 2024

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-to-...idepod-design/

I don’t trust this source. Most of them are unreliable.

It's true with the changes coming at Imola.

[FerrariF60]

It's true with the changes coming at Imola.

so if this source is true and we ARE bringing these updates to Imola.....then it's gonna be DO or DIE for Ferrari....if they work and we mount some good pressure on Red bull and challenge them for wins then the season will be more enjoyable for US fans....if not then it's gonna be a season to test stuff and come back stronger in 2024....

i'm hoping for the former and NOT the latter....

[jgonzalesm6]

so if this source is true and we ARE bringing these updates to Imola.....then it's gonna be DO or DIE for Ferrari....if they work and we mount some good pressure on Red bull and challenge them for wins then the season will be more enjoyable for US fans....if not then it's gonna be a season to test stuff and come back stronger in 2024....

i'm hoping for the former and NOT the latter....

I'm gonna be IF the car is slower.......

[tpe]

I have read many articles.
In one of them they even stated that colder tires result to higher pressure.
This is the quality of journalism.

[Tony]

So we are going into round 3 and its all over already.? Then if that's case the season is a complete testing mule and as fans there will be no need for future negative comments and ferrari bashings given the current state of play its testing we are not racing any more ok.

The gap is so large, I do not think it's possible to recover that gap with in season developments and a cap in place, but what do I know.

[tpe]

Unless you are Mercedes.
They will cover the gap, or at least a lot of it. And they will do it magically, without breaching the cost cap.

[FerrariF60]

Unless you are Mercedes.
They will cover the gap, or at least a lot of it. And they will do it magically, without breaching the cost cap.

probably, as they are Merc and the FIA will allow it

[tpe]

On other news, I hope you noticed that Vasseur "hopes" that they will reach RB by the end of the season...
Obviously, I will wait until Imola, but the signs are not good.

[FerrariF60]

On other news, I hope you noticed that Vasseur "hopes" that they will reach RB by the end of the season...
Obviously, I will wait until Imola, but the signs are not good.

end of the season???? those are pretty sad news, as we were supposed to challenge them from the get GO...

but it is Ferrari we're talking about here, incompetent as usual.....moving onto the 15th year of incompetency....since last time we won something on true merit was 2008.....back when UNLIMITED TRACK TESTING was still allowed

[ferrari1.8t]

probably, as they are Merc and the FIA will allow it

Not only allow it, they will be praised for it!

[FerrariF60]

Not only allow it, they will be praised for it!

EXACTLY....i couldn't have said any better myself

[JacKy]

Seems like imola updates are real.

But… I wouldnt surprise if we become slower.

[paolo lalli]

The saying used on this forum its not how you start its how you finish is ringing true where ferrari are concerned.Fred has a massive amount of spaghetti to unravel thanks to Binotto and co.The jobs for the boys principle is making ferrari pay now.I believe there is a massive amount of work going on in a professional and tidy manner at ferrari according to the italian press,sounds good hope its true,compared to the wrestling matches Binotto left behind he had no ability in delegating and managing employees what so ever no matter the problem.As they say when the cats away the mice will jump all over the sofa.Well guess what a new bigger cat is now in the house and we call him frederick.

[PURE PASSION]

Heard that it will be unlikely that Ferrari will bring big unique update. Basically it will be the special QP format in Imola,less tires sets available make it difficult to work. Pack will be in some steps up to Barcelona but the real change is a bit mysterious ��
Final part of updates are actually scheduled for Spanish GP.
Minor upgrades and maybe new floor can be ready earlier. Given the situation the most important thing now is not the speed of wearing them but that the car start to improve >
It's not an easy situation in the technical office, there is a lot of pressure again. Obviously it is normal because the performance of the SF-23 needs to improve a lot

Looks like its false rumors once again.There won't be a bif pachage in Imola, and there wont be a BIG one at all. Only small ones race by race. I have the feeling that they still dont know hoe to fix things and dont have a good solution in the pipeline. Merc saying that their B-spec shawing very good data , so ot looks like we will be OFFICIALLY and without any doubt the 4th team .
I trully cant see a way for this team to present a good- consistent car in the near future.

[paolo lalli]

If there are ways of unlocking the cars potential it would have been discovered by now,unfortunately it appears there is none its at maximum poor design and poor interpretation of the rules are evident ,ferrari went far to conservative this time.

[tpe]

As days are passing by, more people are coming towards my initial position.
The car is a lemon. Mainly on the suspension. I was pointing this since last year. I am not an engineer but in my mind the logical thing would be to use pushrod at the back. In order to have more flexibility on the mount points.
Anyway, a year and 2 races later, Ferrari discovered that their suspension sucks.

But now they also have competition and also bad aero, or at least not working aero.

I don't think they know how to fix the car. They probably have a pretty good idea what is wrong, but to fix it? No.