SF23 Discussion Thread

[Silent Bob]

Who do we fire now?

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...este/10441764/

Didn't expect that

Guess I got my answer
Who's going to do the aero now? Byrne?

[FerrariF60]

Guess I got my answer
Who's going to do the aero now? Byrne?

Byrne is only a consultant

[Greig]

Most reports suggest he made his decision some months ago, so it's perhaps not just a case that he was fired or left after 1 race. But anyway the car according to most on here is lame and will not be challenging so surely not much of a loss in the grand scheme of things.

New TP was always going to mean changes and some rebuilding, perhaps this is just the start.

[brucewayne]

Most reports suggest he made his decision some months ago, so it's perhaps not just a case that he was fired or left after 1 race. But anyway the car according to most on here is lame and will not be challenging so surely not much of a loss in the grand scheme of things.

New TP was always going to mean changes and some rebuilding, perhaps this is just the start.

Most likely this.

[Ferrari312T4]

Well I guess the HR department has some work to do. This isn't good news at all. Can we now bin this season after one race?

[ntukza]

Most reports suggest he made his decision some months ago, so it's perhaps not just a case that he was fired or left after 1 race. But anyway the car according to most on here is lame and will not be challenging so surely not much of a loss in the grand scheme of things.

New TP was always going to mean changes and some rebuilding, perhaps this is just the start.

It's one thing for the car to be lame "according to most on here," but the trouble is his resignation somewhat confirms it and makes it official, such that it's no longer just according to most on here.

[Greig]

It's one thing for the car to be lame "according to most on here," but the trouble is his resignation somewhat confirms it and makes it official, such that it's no longer just according to most on here.

We have no idea why he resigned, if he was pushed so I am not sure it confirms anything. But as usual people will leap to their own decisions.

[ferrari1.8t]

Well I guess the HR department has some work to do. This isn't good news at all. Can we now bin this season after one race?

If we are rebuilding, then it’s not just the season in the bin; it’s this whole rule cycle. 2026 is logically the next time we can compete for championships. F1 cycles never change, new rules - 1 team gets it right and runs away with the titles. By the end of the rule cycle some convergence happens with the 2nd and 3rd place teams catching up but never really mounting a challenge. Rinse, repeat.

This is why I was desperately hoping it would be Ferrari who came out on top with this rule cycle.

Let’s see how we fair at the next race before we toss out the season, but it’s not looking good.

[FerrariF60]

We have no idea why he resigned, if he was pushed so I am not sure it confirms anything. But as usual people will leap to their own decisions.

where there's smoke there's always fire Greig............it's LIKE that

[ntukza]

We have no idea why he resigned, if he was pushed so I am not sure it confirms anything. But as usual people will leap to their own decisions.

We do have an idea. We don't know for sure but we certainly have an idea.

[FerrariF60]

If we are rebuilding, then it’s not just the season in the bin; it’s this whole rule cycle. 2026 is logically the next time we can compete for championships. F1 cycles never change, new rules - 1 team gets it right and runs away with the titles. By the end of the rule cycle some convergence happens with the 2nd and 3rd place teams catching up but never really mounting a challenge. Rinse, repeat.

This is why I was desperately hoping it would be Ferrari who came out on top with this rule cycle.

Let’s see how we fair at the next race before we toss out the season, but it’s not looking good.

We did have a good car at the beginning of these 2022 new rules (aero wise at least), then the engine reliability started showing its ugly head as that wasn’t bad enough. Then the TD39 happened thanks to Merc and Co. for complaining to the MIA….i mean FIA and afterwards we weren’t allowed to use our “magic floor” along with the ride height was designed and intended to be use for, we all of a sudden were nowhere with excessive tire wear to BOOT.

So in an attempt to try and fix the tire issues we had last year, we did a bunch of changes and so far after one race it still looks like race pace is still off the charts. So maybe it’s a set up change, design flaw??? We’ll remain to be seen in the next 4-5 races.

[Greig]

We do have an idea. We don't know for sure but we certainly have an idea.

You don't know why he resigned quite simply.

[patrese86]

Oh well. At least we are running out of people to blame.

[brucewayne]

Maybe it was already decided after the TD39 fiasco, who knows. Binotto had to leave after that, more or less. It wouldn’t suprise me if it’s also linked to that.

[Tony]

If we are rebuilding, then it’s not just the season in the bin; it’s this whole rule cycle. 2026 is logically the next time we can compete for championships. F1 cycles never change, new rules - 1 team gets it right and runs away with the titles. By the end of the rule cycle some convergence happens with the 2nd and 3rd place teams catching up but never really mounting a challenge. Rinse, repeat.

This is why I was desperately hoping it would be Ferrari who came out on top with this rule cycle.

Let’s see how we fair at the next race before we toss out the season, but it’s not looking good.

I guess it's probably better this happened now than later, at least Vasseur can put his team in place for 2026. Ferrari may be stuck playing catch up for the remaining 3 years of this cycle.

[alfaromeo]

For more than 15 years, there have been no results at Ferrari, but the main people have remained in leading positions, despite the failures, nothing has changed. But apparently, after the start of the disastrous 2023 season, first Binotta and now Sanchez started to move. We cannot have the same main aerodynamics if after 10 years there is no success. The 2023 season has already been written off, but I'm worried about where they will get capable aerodynamics engineers in particular.

[brucewayne]

For more than 15 years, there have been no results at Ferrari, but the main people have remained in leading positions, despite the failures, nothing has changed. But apparently, after the start of the disastrous 2023 season, first Binotta and now Sanchez started to move. We cannot have the same main aerodynamics if after 10 years there is no success. The 2023 season has already been written off, but I'm worried about where they will get capable aerodynamics engineers in particular.

Accountability is very much needed, something we are missing since Todt. And it looks like Vasseur is bringing it back.

[Silent Bob]

Well we'll see how capable the aero team is now without their leader. Hopefully they have some decent upgrades in the pipeline. Still think the car has potential.
Still think firing everyone is not the answer to our problems, especially before they have a replacement.

[aroutis]

We have no idea why he resigned, if he was pushed so I am not sure it confirms anything. But as usual people will leap to their own decisions.

Exactly. I say, roll on 2054 , it's a disaster, the earth is falling to the sky, oh god, we're doomed !

[Senna4Ever]

Initially I thought it might be because I had read somewhere Simone Resta heading back to Ferrari. So the other pulled the ripcord.
But actual research showed that Resta still at/with Haas. Very strange ... even more if the decision was made way months ago (as mentioned from Greig above) the point in time where it executed not the best. But in other terms, if it was already decided months ago, we should have already a answer to it.

Oh well. At least we are running out of people to blame.

its still the bad spirit of Alonso to blame
Was the pope already in Maranello to drive out the devils mood still left there?

[wisepie]

With the falling-off of our performance after the TD39 last year, we seemed to have cured the reliability issues with the ICE and became a bit more competitive towards the end of the 2022 season. I don't want to see 2023 written off based on one race and believe the SF23 still has potential. What I find so hard to accept is that we are likely to incur penalties at the 2nd race and thereafter it could snowball. So whatever performance and degradation issues we face, we will be lumbered with mounting penalties too.

[racingbradley]

Why are we likely to incur penalties at the next race????

[aroutis]

Initially I thought it might be because I had read somewhere Simone Resta heading back to Ferrari. So the other pulled the ripcord.
But actual research showed that Resta still at/with Haas. Very strange ... even more if the decision was made way months ago (as mentioned from Greig above) the point in time where it executed not the best. But in other terms, if it was already decided months ago, we should have already a answer to it.


its still the bad spirit of Alonso to blame
Was the pope already in Maranello to drive out the devils mood still left there?

I believe Resta inevitably is returning. The issue was that Binotto did not like him at Ferrari cause he sought him as direct competition.
But now Binotto is gone.
We shall see.

[FerrariF60]

I believe Resta inevitably is returning. The issue was that Binotto did not like him at Ferrari cause he sought him as direct competition.
But now Binotto is gone.
We shall see.

Yeah, I’d like to see Resta back at Ferrari. He is a great engineer but yeah, he did not like working with Mattia for whatever reasons.

[Silent Bob]

Apparently Vasseur is bringing Alex Cinelli back. So maybe he's flexing some muscle and moving his people back to Ferrari. Resta and Cinelli were at Ferrari for quite some time before moving to Alfa and then Haas for Resta.
So Sanchez might be a move Vasseur had already planned.

[tpe]

All the report say the Ferrari/ Vasseur were blindsided by the resignation.
Until we have more roumors/news we can safely say that Sanchez left on its own.

I find it difficult to get any of the other ppl mentioned back without gardening leave, or something similar.

[wisepie]

Why are we likely to incur penalties at the next race????

If both ERS systems used in Bahrain (the original and the replacement before the race) are not able to be recovered, that's our whole allowance for the season. That's IF it is confirmed by the team that those failures were the cause of Charles retiring, but I have read somewhere else today that it may have been the ICE after all, but so far nothing concrete has been forthcoming from the team. A 5-place penalty in Jeddah for Charles seems likely, as a minimum.

[brucewayne]

I like Vasseur more and more

https://www.newsf1.it/f1-la-ferrari-...in-su-leclerc/

[BRP]

– The new Ferrari course, with Frederic Vasseur at the helm, would have already traced the way forward in the coming years as regards the management of internal forces (drivers) and development programmes.

It was certainly not the start of the F1 world championship that was expected at Ferrari. Carlos Sainz's fourth place and Charles Leclerc's retirement inaugurated in the worst way what was supposed to be Ferrari's redemption season.

Around Maranello, however, as also hinted by Vasseur himself after the Bahrain Grand Prix, they would already be aware of how to resolve a situation that already seems irrecoverable...


New developments strategy

The huge gap in favor of Red Bull seen at Sakhir is certainly worrying, especially if we consider that on that same track the teams carried out 3 complete days of pre-season tests (for a total amount of hours such as to minimize the possibility of trim errors). Still, Vasseur is convinced that the one seen in Bahrain could have been the worst possible version of the SF-23, and that therefore, starting from the next races, the distance from Red Bull could be quite different.

The single-seater development strategy adopted by Ferrari during 2022 (under the guidance of Mattia Binotto) envisaged the introduction of macro-packages of updates every 5/6 races. We remember well how last year the first real developments brought to the F1-75 arrived in Spain: with times of this kind, it was inevitable to leave Red Bull and the other competitors the possibility of gaining important points in that period of time in which instead Ferrari had not updated, then trying to recover everything through the subsequent 'mega' updates.

A bankruptcy strategy, especially if adopted in the era of budget caps, which this year it was decided to abandon. In fact, the new Ferrari line wanted the SF23 to take a different path, similar to that of Red Bull, through which to bring small but important innovations to each grand prix. Starting from Jeddah, in fact, we should see some small technical changes on the Italian single-seater, especially on the front wing.

Leclerc finally first guide?

The other important aspect on which Vasseur's team will intervene heavily concerns the management of the pilots in relation to the aforementioned developments.

The Binotto management, bankrupt also in this respect, had in fact placed the well-being of both drivers as the focus of car development: having never wanted to choose a first or second driver, the former team principal had in fact tried to accommodate both Sainz and Leclerc (two drivers with diametrically opposite driving styles), ending up literally burning a good part of the car's performance potential. A suicidal management highlighted even more by the comparison with Red Bull, which has always been known for favoring the development of its cars in the direction of first driving, significantly improving comfort and performance even to the detriment of the second driver. A necessary sacrifice if the ambition is to become world champions without a dominant car.

Well, as Fabiano Vandone also reported in an interview with Rossomotori.it, it would seem that Ferrari has changed its approach this year.

Leclerc's talent and speed skills are unanimously recognized as superior to those of the still excellent Sainz. Therefore, the development and technical corrections to be made to the single-seater during the season will see the requests of the Monegasque satisfied, in an attempt to provide the best possible version of the SF23 to the driver deemed strongest. Sainz, notoriously a good test driver and a reliable driver, should instead be entrusted with the task of testing the innovations introduced on the single-seater from race to race, along the lines of what happens in Red Bull with Perez.

Vasseur's 'revolution' has therefore begun: the hope now is that the SF23 will confirm that engineering prodigy that has been talked about for months, to give the Cavallino the opportunity to play its cards against a Red Bull that seems , at the moment, unapproachable.

[brucewayne]

– The new Ferrari course, with Frederic Vasseur at the helm, would have already traced the way forward in the coming years as regards the management of internal forces (drivers) and development programmes.

It was certainly not the start of the F1 world championship that was expected at Ferrari. Carlos Sainz's fourth place and Charles Leclerc's retirement inaugurated in the worst way what was supposed to be Ferrari's redemption season.

Around Maranello, however, as also hinted by Vasseur himself after the Bahrain Grand Prix, they would already be aware of how to resolve a situation that already seems irrecoverable...


New developments strategy

The huge gap in favor of Red Bull seen at Sakhir is certainly worrying, especially if we consider that on that same track the teams carried out 3 complete days of pre-season tests (for a total amount of hours such as to minimize the possibility of trim errors). Still, Vasseur is convinced that the one seen in Bahrain could have been the worst possible version of the SF-23, and that therefore, starting from the next races, the distance from Red Bull could be quite different.

The single-seater development strategy adopted by Ferrari during 2022 (under the guidance of Mattia Binotto) envisaged the introduction of macro-packages of updates every 5/6 races. We remember well how last year the first real developments brought to the F1-75 arrived in Spain: with times of this kind, it was inevitable to leave Red Bull and the other competitors the possibility of gaining important points in that period of time in which instead Ferrari had not updated, then trying to recover everything through the subsequent 'mega' updates.

A bankruptcy strategy, especially if adopted in the era of budget caps, which this year it was decided to abandon. In fact, the new Ferrari line wanted the SF23 to take a different path, similar to that of Red Bull, through which to bring small but important innovations to each grand prix. Starting from Jeddah, in fact, we should see some small technical changes on the Italian single-seater, especially on the front wing.

Leclerc finally first guide?

The other important aspect on which Vasseur's team will intervene heavily concerns the management of the pilots in relation to the aforementioned developments.

The Binotto management, bankrupt also in this respect, had in fact placed the well-being of both drivers as the focus of car development: having never wanted to choose a first or second driver, the former team principal had in fact tried to accommodate both Sainz and Leclerc (two drivers with diametrically opposite driving styles), ending up literally burning a good part of the car's performance potential. A suicidal management highlighted even more by the comparison with Red Bull, which has always been known for favoring the development of its cars in the direction of first driving, significantly improving comfort and performance even to the detriment of the second driver. A necessary sacrifice if the ambition is to become world champions without a dominant car.

Well, as Fabiano Vandone also reported in an interview with Rossomotori.it, it would seem that Ferrari has changed its approach this year.

Leclerc's talent and speed skills are unanimously recognized as superior to those of the still excellent Sainz. Therefore, the development and technical corrections to be made to the single-seater during the season will see the requests of the Monegasque satisfied, in an attempt to provide the best possible version of the SF23 to the driver deemed strongest. Sainz, notoriously a good test driver and a reliable driver, should instead be entrusted with the task of testing the innovations introduced on the single-seater from race to race, along the lines of what happens in Red Bull with Perez.

Vasseur's 'revolution' has therefore begun: the hope now is that the SF23 will confirm that engineering prodigy that has been talked about for months, to give the Cavallino the opportunity to play its cards against a Red Bull that seems , at the moment, unapproachable.

It makes absolute sense and is the way to go. Leclerc is the superior driver, so we will use our resources to maximize his talents. Just like RB does with Max.