2018 Italian GP Monza: RACE

[mwk360]

Toro Rosso Franz Trost about whether Seb is at fault, if Ferrari does not get a title this year:

"The fact that Ferrari is so good in the first place has been largely because of Sebastian. He ensured that. That's why the question is not fair."

[mwk360]

A bit curious, if kimi gets sacked and leclerc gets ferrari seat, lets say Ant Gio goes to sauber, who becomes ferrari's "young driver" and "test driver" - assume Kvyat as test driver and sim driver but who becomes young driver? do they have anyone in the lower formulas or something that is ready to do that yet?

[Ed Harley]

Sacked?

[mwk360]

Sacked?

replaced

[tifosi1993]

Yeah Vettel is solely responsible for our power unit development. Before Vettel joined Ferrari engineers were a bunch of brainless cows, it was Vettel who told them how to build a powerful engine. Guess our aero guys learned valuable lessons from him. Wind tunnel correlation, full car dyno, new cylinder head concepts all these stuff are Vettel's contribution.

I guess Hamilton is largely responsible for current Mercedes domination.

[mwk360]

Yeah Vettel is solely responsible for our power unit development. Before Vettel joined Ferrari engineers were a bunch of brainless cows, it was Vettel who told them how to build a powerful engine. Guess our aero guys learned valuable lessons from him. Wind tunnel correlation, full car dyno, new cylinder head concepts all these stuff are Vettel's contribution.

I guess Hamilton is largely responsible for current Mercedes domination.

Binotto , but i guess Franz meant built the team in the "unlike alonso" way that Horner alluded too before, instead of being toxic maybe he meant seb made them closer, stronger etc? i dunno. he said it lol

[Ed Harley]

What is Arrivabene needed for if SV has built the team?

[tifosi1993]

Binotto , but i guess Franz meant built the team in the "unlike alonso" way that Horner alluded too before, instead of being toxic maybe he meant seb made them closer, stronger etc? i dunno. he said it lol

So many contradictions in one post. It's good that you acknowledge Binotto, but he wasn't the technical director during the Alonso era now was he? and what about Marchionne, Arrivabene or Corrado Lotti?

"Seb made them closer, stonger" but how? was it by locking them in one room and telling them they won't come out until they learned to work together?

[mwk360]

So many contradictions in one post. It's good that you acknowledge Binotto, but he wasn't the technical director during the Alonso era now was he? and what about Marchionne, Arrivabene or Corrado Lotti?

"Seb made them closer, stonger" but how? was it by locking them in one room and telling them they won't come out until they learned to work together?

lol go ask Franz Tost, but i think i agree with him whatever way he meant

[tifosi1993]

lol go ask Franz Tost,

Nah, not gonna waste my time.

but i think i agree with him whatever way he meant

[T99]

Shumacher accident 2004 vs vettel 2018 same place very similar accidents, maybe it’s an omen vettel has to wait 4 years like shumi before winning the title with Ferrari

https://twitter.com/enricotornello/s...974571008?s=21

[mwk360]

Shumacher accident 2004 vs vettel 2018 same place very similar accidents, maybe it’s an omen vettel has to wait 4 years like shumi before winning the title with Ferrari

https://twitter.com/enricotornello/s...974571008?s=21

WOW!!!! omg thats insane lol

[T99]

WOW!!!! omg thats insane lol

I know lol it seems like the same accident.. no damage on shumacher car though!

[Greig]

Schumi still finished 2nd just behind Rubens....

[mizf1]

James Allen analysis of Monza

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2018/...lose-in-monza/

Interesting bit here, maybe sheds more light on what Vettel said about Kimi being able to win

"If Raikkonen has a clause in his contract saying that there will be no team orders in the event of a pole position"

[mizf1]

What poor fellow? Ruined his own race and also ruined Vettel's race. First locked up his tyres in the first corner and then again in the next corner, he never defended against any rival since he rejoined, always gave up positions easily and never overtook anyone, here instead of fighting Mercedes drivers, he decided to fight his own teammate.

I actually agree wth you for once, the aggresive defence on Seb at Monza was the most aggressive I seen Kimi for a long time. I mean last year he didn't even defend against RIC who divedbombed down rhe inside from so far back.

Also,the move against Hamilton, he could have made if a bit harder as Merc were even praising Kimi for being 'fair'. Tyres or no tyres you defend like your life depends on it, not have the mentality oh he will get me eventually. That is when someone like Mad Max comes handy.

[Silent Bob]

What poor fellow? Ruined his own race and also ruined Vettel's race. First locked up his tyres in the first corner and then again in the next corner, he never defended against any rival since he rejoined, always gave up positions easily and never overtook anyone, here instead of fighting Mercedes drivers, he decided to fight his own teammate.

True. What a time to stop giving up places at the start.

[Rishu]

lol go ask Franz Tost, but i think i agree with him whatever way he meant

Franz Tost & Christian Horner seem to know a lot more about Ferrari and their employees. They understand Vettel in Ferrari more than Ricciardo in RedBull

[chinmay]

Franz Tost & Christian Horner seem to know a lot more about Ferrari and their employees. They understand Vettel in Ferrari more than Ricciardo in RedBull

Yes because they know Vettel and how mighty good he is. They know what he is capable of, no wonder Marko and Horner rate Vettel among the top 2 greatest drivers of all time. Check their dream team when they were asked about it in 2015.

Helmut Marko - Ayrton Senna and Sebastian Vettel
Christian Horner - Nigel Mansell and Sebastian Vettel

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/f...ream-team.html

They don't rate him highly just because he got those 4 titles, they rate him highly because they know how he got those 4 titles and what his contribution was. Went to Toro Rosso, made them winner, went to Red Bull, made them champions, came to Ferrari and helped them produce the best car in 10 years. This is not coincidence.

[Rishu]

Yes because they know Vettel and how mighty good he is. They know what he is capable of, no wonder Marko and Horner rate Vettel among the top 2 greatest drivers of all time. Check their dream team when they were asked about it in 2015.

Helmut Marko - Ayrton Senna and Sebastian Vettel
Christian Horner - Nigel Mansell and Sebastian Vettel

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/f...ream-team.html

They don't rate him highly just because he got those 4 titles, they rate him highly because they know how he got those 4 titles and what his contribution was. Went to Toro Rosso, made them winner, went to Red Bull, made them champions, came to Ferrari and helped them produce the best car in 10 years. This is not coincidence.

I don't care what these three clowns think, maybe it was Vettel & not Newey who was developing cars in RedBull, working on aero & EBD concepts. Here in Ferrari it's our hard working team, engineers in Maranello & guys like Binotto who have been working flat to give Seb the car he drives week in week out. Seb can tell them the strengths & weaknesses but it's the engineers who get the car right.

Would you give that to Hamilton who must be the GOAT, going to Mercedes when they were a tyre degradation silver machine & turned it into a dominant team. Let me guess, yeah Hamilton is all lucky in his career. Is that correct?

Horner should worry more about his team & drivers & entire Honda situations & Marko's quit threats.

[dfunk257]

This is exactly what ive been saying since Monza....
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/324...-blame-for-seb

[chinmay]

I don't care what these three clowns think, maybe it was Vettel & not Newey who was developing cars in RedBull, working on aero & EBD concepts. Here in Ferrari it's our hard working team, engineers in Maranello & guys like Binotto who have been working flat to give Seb the car he drives week in week out. Seb can tell them the strengths & weaknesses but it's the engineers who get the car right.

Would you give that to Hamilton who must be the GOAT, going to Mercedes when they were a tyre degradation silver machine & turned it into a dominant team. Let me guess, yeah Hamilton is all lucky in his career. Is that correct?

Horner should worry more about his team & drivers & entire Honda situations & Marko's quit threats.

Yes, Hamilton was lucky because the engine development in Mercedes was started in 2011, Ross Brawn said that they had asked the board for either going all in or winding up, board chose the former and 2011 was the year when they started putting things together, Hamilton only joined the team in 2013 to reap the results of the hard work done since 2011. Also in that tyre degrading Silver Arrow of 2013, Hamilton won 1 race whereas Rosberg won 2.

On the other hand, Vettel always has to build team just like Schumacher from the ground up. Ferrari was not competitive in either 2015 or 2016 but they showed signs of progress in 2017. Binotto didn't join the team in the past 2 years, neither did the other engineers. What were they doing in the past 10 years. The truth is they all deserve credit but what you should understand that is without a technical driver, a team cannot progress no matter how good engineers you got. What did Ferrari achieve in the past 10 years when they had dud of drivers? Alonso didn't win title in Ferrari was because Red Bull had Vettel. If Adrian Newey must be given credit then why didn't Mark Webber finish 2nd in the championship in either 2010 or 2011 or 2012 or 2013? If you look at the history of Adrian Newey, he has produced more crap cars than good ones.

Vettel's close working style and his excellent input allows the engineers to know what exactly the driver needs to perform and most of the drivers are incapable of such input. Of course, Horner will worry more about his team because they no longer have Vettel to win them titles, Marko recently said they might even quit Formula 1 in few years. They thought Verstappen can develop into a good driver who maybe can emulate Vettel but reality is dawning upon them, they realize they are in Formula 1 only to make up numbers, their golden period is past them.

These guys Horner and Marko know what they are talking about but I can't really blame you for not understanding, after all, Ferrari since Schumacher never had a driver who could help off track as well rather than just drive with whatever they are given.

[Brembo]

Why until recently did the engineers not listen to Vettel's excelent input with Kimi's car? Or was Seb only into his own ride? Kimi got pole and 2nd place Monza! Who know perhaps Giovanazzi is doing the right job with his input even including Kimi. Seb needs to know exactly what needs to be done in traffic on the track, forget the garage for now, he's a driver + engineer? Who knew?

[mwk360]

I know lol it seems like the same accident.. no damage on shumacher car though!

Lol seriously! the timing, the spin everything is like a mirror, plus 2004 ferrari was a beast lol, maybe now they build the SF71h with Styrofoam, sebs car was completely missing the left section

[mwk360]

This is exactly what ive been saying since Monza....
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/324...-blame-for-seb

remember reading this pretty accurate, oh well ferrari probably wont do any explaining to the media, M.A's approach is to do talking behind doors and action on track. lets hope they smarten up if they want Wdc and wcc

[mwk360]

True. What a time to stop giving up places at the start.

Lol!

[mwk360]

I actually agree wth you for once, the aggresive defence on Seb at Monza was the most aggressive I seen Kimi for a long time. I mean last year he didn't even defend against RIC who divedbombed down rhe inside from so far back.

Also,the move against Hamilton, he could have made if a bit harder as Merc were even praising Kimi for being 'fair'. Tyres or no tyres you defend like your life depends on it, not have the mentality oh he will get me eventually. That is when someone like Mad Max comes handy.

Lol maybe mercs going to offer kimi a seat in one of their cars wolff asked for a lil favor? (just a joke)

[tifosi1993]

Shumacher accident 2004 vs vettel 2018 same place very similar accidents, maybe it’s an omen vettel has to wait 4 years like shumi before winning the title with Ferrari

https://twitter.com/enricotornello/s...974571008?s=21

Damp track vs dry track but carry on.

[tifosi1993]

Schumi still finished 2nd just behind Rubens....

But Schumi wasn't responsible for designing the car! Poor Seb, so many responsibilities on his shoulders, designing the car then driving it.

[chinmay]

Why until recently did the engineers not listen to Vettel's excelent input with Kimi's car? Or was Seb only into his own ride? Kimi got pole and 2nd place Monza! Who know perhaps Giovanazzi is doing the right job with his input even including Kimi. Seb needs to know exactly what needs to be done in traffic on the track, forget the garage for now, he's a driver + engineer? Who knew?

Someone should tell Kimi that he is a Ferrari driver first and foremost but he ain't acting like one.