thank you Stefa, could not have said it any better myselfOriginally Posted by stefa
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thank you Stefa, could not have said it any better myself
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Unlimited testing ban was put into effect to stop Ferrari from dominating F1! Imagine having your own test track!The wind tunnel was just to have something other than nothing. I hope enough time has passed in F1 to allow Ferrari to win again without fear of fan boardome and attendance dropping. Anyone who believes Ferrari can't make a winning car and think that's the problem needs to wake up ! In the sport of racing there are two supreme" Fs " Formula 1", and "Ferrari! "
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I was saying this for a long time now. Formula 1 is a sport for filthy rich. So if you are not one you just do not compete. Simple as that. It is not Ferrari fault that they happen to have racing track in the back of their factory! You want to compete and join the club? Build one! Don't cry - they have and we don't let's ban it!Unlimited testing ban was put into effect to stop Ferrari from dominating F1! Imagine having your own test track!
For the wind tunnel to build, I am not ex[pert but somehow I think it is far more expensive than track...
And regarding your last sentence: "Anyone who believes Ferrari can't make a winning car and think that's the problem needs to wake up !". Ferrari them self proved to us that they cannot do that - 2014 and 2016 winless...
Naughty Word Mod
Does Byrne’s involvement point to radical 2017 Ferrari?
Legendary Formula 1 designer Rory Byrne’s return to Ferrari had been kept low profile for months, but his presence alongside Jock Clear at the Autosport Awards showed he is very much part of the family now.
The 72-year-old – who was chief designer during the dominant Michael Schumacher era – is now dividing his time between Ferrari and Thailand, where he has devoted himself to his passion of underwater fishing.
Having been recalled in a consultancy role earlier this year, Byrne has been working closely with Simone Resta on Ferrari’s 2017 car – codenamed the 688 – on what sources say are the development of concepts that go to the limit of regulatory interpretations.
It is an aggressive approach that Ferrari has not been so keen to pursue in recent years, whereas rivals like Red Bull and Mercedes have always been keen to push things to the limit of the rules in their quest for success.
One example is the way Mercedes incorporated hydraulic front suspension through exploiting regulations that were intended to help Manor run a year-old car in 2015.
But with new regulations coming next year – which are expected to deliver a laptime improvement of five seconds – there is talk that technical director Mattia Binotto’s efforts are paying off.
At the Ferrari Mondiali in Daytona last weekend, team principal Maurizio Arrivabene said: “Our 2017 began last August with a major change on the technical front.
"People expect a lot from Ferrari, wins and success, therefore we will do our utmost to achieve that. But ever since the new structure was put in place, with a great engineer like Mattia Binotto in charge, we have seen positive signs, as in Japan and Abu Dhabi.”
But how is it conceivable that a team that did not win a single race in 2016 – after three victories and runner-up in the constructors’ championship the year before – can hope to become competitive without much recruitment from outside and having lost a key strength in James Allison.
The answer comes from president Sergio Marchionne: “We have reorganised the management in August, and I have every confidence in the work of Mattia Binotto. The structure I believe is now very good – although some change is always possible. But the key building blocks are in place.”
The restructuring that is talked about involves 14 separate working groups, and a more horizontal structure that allows more input from more staff. Marchionne has laid down some ambitious targets, as he is determined for Ferrari to make the most of the opportunity given by new regulations.
In Maranello there is said to be some optimism about progress, because the car that is emerging is in line with expectations. However, that does not mean that Ferrari is definitely on course to produce a race-winning car – as that will depend on what Mercedes and Red Bull do – but it means the numbers from the simulators and windtunnel are encouraging.
Inside the racing department, there is understood to be a feeling that the team ‘must’ get back on top, and a quiet confidence it is working towards that target. But can Ferrari under Binotto really churn out ideas that will be necessary to challenge Mercedes and Red Bull?
We will only know for sure during the first winter tests when the cars are unleashed in Barcelona, but there are already whispers that Ferrari – under Byrne’s watchful eye – has found solutions that come from clever interpretation of the rules.
If true, it means the new Ferrari should have a more aggressive approach to its 2017 design than we saw with the SF16-H.
And was there a hidden motive behind the decision by Ferrari to challenge the FIA over the Mexico penalty for Sebastian Vettel? Was it trying to find out how far it can go in pushing the regulations and how the governing body would respond to a challenge – ahead of some interpretations that may raise the eyebrows of rival engineers on its new car?
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...errari-858502/
CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE
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This would be a welcome development but how many times have we been disappointed by empty promises? For once, let it be true!
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Exactly! Every year same old story. magical Mr. Byrne is working on new Ferrari with something radical, and at the end...big nothing!This would be a welcome development but how many times have we been disappointed by empty promises? For once, let it be true!
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Well, I'll latch onto that little thread of hope that maybe he got tired of giving advice that was ignored or applied incorrectly & decided to give one last hurrah to a Ferrari build before snorkelling off into the sunset!
(Well, it is only early December, loads of time before I am forced back into the real world, now is time for imaginary fun.)
Forza Ferrari !
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio
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And regarding your last sentence: "Anyone who believes Ferrari can't make a winning car and think that's the problem needs to wake up !". Ferrari them self proved to us that they cannot do that - 2014 and 2016 winless...[/QUOTE]
What I believe is Ferrari has to wait it's turn to be allowed back on top. Money$$ controls F1 and who's on top. A few less tracks and a lot less fans do to the same team winning is a no, no. I believe fans are now dying for Ferrari to be back on top, so Bernie and Co. will let it happen .
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What I believe is Ferrari has to wait it's turn to be allowed back on top. Money$$ controls F1 and who's on top. A few less tracks and a lot less fans do to the same team winning is a no, no. I believe fans are now dying for Ferrari to be back on top, so Bernie and Co. will let it happen .[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, this is way to conspiracy theory
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With all due respect, this is way to conspiracy theory
Laugh all you want! I believe that's what's up ! Bernie is in his 80s and still manuevering F1 even saying he's out. $$$ But your probably 1/2 right!
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I'd have to agree, Bernie does manipulate things, but not always to the end result he may have been hoping for, all in the name of the sport & by sport I mean cash, value of FOM.
Laugh all you want! I believe that's what's up ! Bernie is in his 80s and still manuevering F1 even saying he's out. $$$ But your probably 1/2 right!
He manipulates F1 & its rules to the extent he can, the rest is up to the teams & chance. Ferrari, on the other end, have not been able to take advantage of any bones he's thrown their way - if indeed he has!
Is the new car "codename 688" as the article Rob posted? I thought it was actually a consecutive numbered project number, which should be 668, I believe. This SF-17 H is just guessing by the OP, right?
Last edited by abbottcostello; 13th December 2016 at 08:20. Reason: Quotes might still be all messed up, tried to fix
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio
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Ferrari: the 6-cylinder engine 2017 will have innovative solutions!
'Engine of the Ferrari are studying a 6-cylinder entirely new compared with what has raced this year. I will focus on the efficiency of combustion 062/1 to increase performance and reduce power consumption.'
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I like what they are saying!
I searched through all of motorsport.com's region variations looking for it in english & this article does not come up in the global, UK or US versions of the website? Do they just not translate the ones written in Italian or is this a special "optimistic" story just for the Italian consumer?
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio
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With all due respect, this is way to conspiracy theory
Stefa, do you really believe a team like Ferrari cant get their gear box right? What was it 5xs between the two drivers?
Ferrari Affiliate
Ferrari invested in having their own track. It didn't grow up in a field , and it definitely did not come for cheap or free.Ferrari was competitive because there was unlimited testing and they ware using that 110% on their track. Later and now when everything is moved to windtunel and CFD we all know how good Ferrari is at that. Years of coorelation problems... So... For me call me pessimistic, I don't see bright future.
The ban of unlimited testing was something that Ferrari paid dearly and I don't see why they should. F1 is not a sport for the ones with limited resources, never was, never will be.
So where exactly did all this cost reduction take the sport ? Let me see; smaller teams are thriving, are they competitive? No. And No.
Is there even cost reduction?
No, RBR has actually two teams and uses them to its advantage, Mercedes spends a bucketload of money.
So ,what has changed apart from putting ferrari in a bad spot?
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
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Nothings changed. The money just gets moved somewhere else. Wind tunnels, rolling test beds etc. I wonder if it's any more efficient to use a windtunnel, make parts and then transport them to the racetracks, test them and possibly not use them because they don't work as planned. Seems to me it'd be cheaper to find that out at home where the part can be altered or enhanced to make sure it works before flying it half way around the world... then back again, fix it, fly it, test it, return it, fix it, fly it etc etc.
Said before it's better to let teams allocate their time and money where they want. Let them choose if they want to use all their allotted time in the wind tunnel or the race track.
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Why do Ferrari suck at aerodynamics? Do they have a bad windtunnel or what? As i know, Ferrari bought a new windtunnel not long time ago. But could be terribly wrong here.
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Famous correlation problems.
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Nope, you are right, then it took them a while to get it correlated to the real world cars, but from what I understand at some point they got decent correlation results. Put them behind quite a bit & still playing catch up!
Last edited by abbottcostello; 16th December 2016 at 00:20.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio
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If Bottas goes to Merc, all the team help Nico got will not be blessed upon him, so I believe Ferrari will be right there fighting Lewis. Seb and Kimi I truly believe will handel Bottas and his Merc. Oh ! Ferrari needs to cure their gearbox disease first and foremost!
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Does this mean that we need a new wind tunnel that we will use only for F1?
Mercedes has a separate wind tunnel in Brackley right?
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It is for F1, not sure if it is used for Ferrari road cars as well? When I said "real world cars" in my previous post I was referring to real F1 cars, as the rules limit wind tunnel testing to 1/6 size models.
As for Mercedes, I don't really know! I would not be surprised if they have more than one as large as they are.
Last edited by abbottcostello; 17th December 2016 at 00:58.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio
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Oh, right. I misunderstood. So, when saying correlation problems, you mean we have trouble calibrating the wind tunnel?
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Let me start by saying I'm far from an expert of wind tunnels. I think the main problem is getting the same result on track as in the wind tunnel. Pretty sure when they run those big wire grids with all the sensors during free practice & winter testing, they are comparing that data to the wind tunnel info. That's why they would have updates that didn't work. Design testing from wind tunnel results would be very positive, make the part in full size & bolt it on the car & it doesn't work same as wind tunnel.
If there are any aerodynamics experts here, don't be afraid to jump in at any time!
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio
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Back practice on a race track! That's the answer!
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Exactly! Why simulate something what can be tested in real time and enviroment!?
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Surely it costs more to simulate (in terms of time needed, complexity and technology) than track testing... I don't understand the logic to it.
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Because other teams do not have a test track.. therefore Ferrari can't use theirs.
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Ferrai Launch date announced: 24 Feb 2017
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...f1-car-860323/
Old, not obsolete
I think it is the other way around.
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