2016 Mexican GP race thread

[doublesixes]

This unfair situation and precarious position the Scuderia has been placed into, is absolutely self-inflicted. Our cars should be fighting for poles and wins and not squabble with second and third tier teams. Let's hope that our development department gets their ducks in a row and produce a winning car for once and for all.

[wisepie]

The penalty was borderline. I can see both sides. The problem I think most people have here is that the FIA had ample time to hand a penalty out on track and force Max to move, but they decided to wait until the race was over to investigate. If the FIA reacted quick enough, in what was pretty cut and dry, Vettel would not have been in that situation with Daniel.

To make matters worse, if Ham and Ros didn't get a penalty on the opening lap for cutting T1 then I don't think Max should have gotten a penalty. I can see everyone's side of the story, both Red Bulls and Vettel's. The only common problem here is the FIA.

And while I am amused by Vettel's radio tirades, he needs to clean up his mouth a bit. When it is so over the top it gets a bit embarrassing. I don't mind a "What the &*%" here and there but come on.

Agree with you and this is the most reasoned reaction to what happened. Trouble is that Seb has become so frustrated and was so close to achieving a genuine podium that his language got the better of him......most of us would have been the same! The treatment of Ferrari by all and sundry this season has been utterly provocative, almost as if there's a vendetta against the team. We'll show them, sooner or later.

[superwonderboy]

Absolutely gutted!! I'm sorry but Daniel, Max and Lewis are all lungers when overtaking and has been for some time now. There are driver's that race very hard against eachother but you don't see them lunging in an overtake move. The likes of Jenson, Alonso, kimi in good fast cars are hard defenders and attackers of the racing line with in limit of the fia regulations. You never see them driving you off the track to overtake. I serioulsy don't know anymore. This has gone too far.

[stefa]

FIA did not ordered Max to give his position to Seb, so he stayed infront. He is no gentleman, quite the opposite. He could have ruined Rosberg's championship in first corner after the start. He blocked his front right wheel and went deep into the corner. Had Rosberg stayed within the track and not moved onto the grass he could have ended with demaged car. Verstappen has been driving like it was a videogame all the season.

Could not have putted it any better
Someone needs to teach this little brat about behavior. As there is saying in my country stick came out of heaven!!! And someone needs to beat a hell out of him!!!

[WS6TransAm01]

This is total crap. I am genuinely not sure how Max hasn't gotten punches in the face yet.

The FIA are a total joke. Max does this crap all year and nothing. Seb does it and 10 second penalty. Total and utter

[erinha]

To make matters worse, if Ham and Ros didn't get a penalty on the opening lap for cutting T1 then I don't think Max should have gotten a penalty.

I don't think so. I mean, yeah, Ham should have gotten a penalty as well, and it was the same situation with Max. But Rosberg had no fault there. He was forced off the road by Verstappen. He would have crashed into him had he stayed on the road.

[NickEice]

I don't think so. I mean, yeah, Ham should have gotten a penalty as well, and it was the same situation with Max. But Rosberg had no fault there. He was forced off the road by Verstappen. He would have crashed into him had he stayed on the road.

Then he should have backed off. If there was a gravel trap there what would Rosberg have done? Most likely given the position up. Rosberg was quick to take to the runoff as he knew it would be beneficial to him. That's not in the spirit of the rules.

[erinha]

He got pushed out. I don't know what you expect him to do. It's the start of a F1 race. Braking there or joining the track before T2 would have likely caused a real disaster too.

[Giallo 550]

Absolutely gutted!The likes of Jenson, Alonso, kimi in good fast cars are hard defenders and attackers of the racing line with in limit of the fia regulations. You never see them driving you off the track to overtake. I serioulsy don't know anymore. This has gone too far.

[abbottcostello]

Vettel's move was not what the rule meant to address.
The rule was meant to address the issue where a driver waits until the person at the back commits to either side, and he move to block. This can happen outside of braking zone too if the straight is long enough.

In Vettel's case, Ric was already beside Vettel, he has plenty of room. Vettel is entitled to make life hard for Ric without forcing him off track, this is a classic defensive move we've seen all the time.
The only problem is, Ric misjudge where Vettel was heading. He thought Vettel was heading to his right, and so he too move to the right. Instead, Vettel was moving to the left to force Ric into a tighter turn.
It's a purely racing incident.

Many such defensive move are done in the braking zone because that's where you turn into a corner. You cannot outright ban any kind of movement in the braking zone, otherwise you risk preventing the drivers from doing any serious racing.

Complete misapplication of the rule. At this point I'm surprised Ves didn't get an award for not moving in the braking zone (by cutting the corner)!
If these are the decisions we'll be getting from FIA on moving while braking, I say tell Charlie to back off & let the other drivers take care of those not abiding by the "unwritten rule" that they had before!

[dfunk257]

I think these decisions were all a joke, absolutely ridiculous!
Why did it take so damn long for them to come up with these decisions??? I think something must be put in place that when i driver does something wrong, then the stewards must review it and act on it straight away, i mean like in 1 lap. It makes no sense as to why it takes so long for a few people to review the footage that they have access to straight away and come up with a decision. To penalise Seb hours after the race was finished is just a disgrace and a joke as far as the sport is concerned. really cannot wait for this disastrous year to end.

[MAD_Junior]

At most tracks, 1 lap is less than 2 minutes. I think it is quite unrealistic to say that the stewards need to come to a decision in that amount of time.

I think these decisions were all a joke, absolutely ridiculous!
Why did it take so damn long for them to come up with these decisions??? I think something must be put in place that when i driver does something wrong, then the stewards must review it and act on it straight away, i mean like in 1 lap. It makes no sense as to why it takes so long for a few people to review the footage that they have access to straight away and come up with a decision. To penalise Seb hours after the race was finished is just a disgrace and a joke as far as the sport is concerned. really cannot wait for this disastrous year to end.

[Silent Bob]

If Vettel is banned from next race, would like to see Ferrari pull both cars in protest. It may not be the truth but it sure seems like there are 2 sets of rules... those for us and those for Merc and Red Bull. Maybe we don't lobby hard enough or whatever but this sport is getting pretty disgraceful. No testing, no development, restrictions on wind tunnels, teams able to set powertrain decisions. Utter BS. Let's see what FIA do if Ferrari decide to concentrate on GT or go to Lemans.

[chris.gotfunk]

At most tracks, 1 lap is less than 2 minutes. I think it is quite unrealistic to say that the stewards need to come to a decision in that amount of time.

I actually disagree. The drivers make these decisions in a split second. The stewards are former racing drivers who can make racing decisions and there is no reason that a decision can't be made sitting in front of TV in 2 minutes.

[chris.gotfunk]

If Vettel is banned from next race, would like to see Ferrari pull both cars in protest. It may not be the truth but it sure seems like there are 2 sets of rules... those for us and those for Merc and Red Bull. Maybe we don't lobby hard enough or whatever but this sport is getting pretty disgraceful. No testing, no development, restrictions on wind tunnels, teams able to set powertrain decisions. Utter BS. Let's see what FIA do if Ferrari decide to concentrate on GT or go to Lemans.

With Audi leaving LeMans, I would LOVE to see Ferrari enter an LMP1 car into that world. That series of racing is much more entertaining and exciting. They already have the infrastructure to travel to those races, build the cars and I'm not sure if many of us remember this, but we also have a track that we could actually use to test the car.

I'm not saying Ferrari pull out of F1 completely or at all. If anything, I'm willing to bet the F1 team could learn a whole lot while the LMP1 car gets to test... engines, transmissions, aero... just sayin.

[Stormy]

It looks like Vettel flaming on the radio can have further consequences.
http://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-ord...o-vettel-rant/

[Greig]

It looks like Vettel flaming on the radio can have further consequences.
http://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-ord...o-vettel-rant/

Would trust Autosport ahead of PF1

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...-after-apology

[Rob]

If Vettel is banned from next race, would like to see Ferrari pull both cars in protest. It may not be the truth but it sure seems like there are 2 sets of rules... those for us and those for Merc and Red Bull. Maybe we don't lobby hard enough or whatever but this sport is getting pretty disgraceful. No testing, no development, restrictions on wind tunnels, teams able to set powertrain decisions. Utter BS. Let's see what FIA do if Ferrari decide to concentrate on GT or go to Lemans.

With Audi leaving LeMans, I would LOVE to see Ferrari enter an LMP1 car into that world. That series of racing is much more entertaining and exciting. They already have the infrastructure to travel to those races, build the cars and I'm not sure if many of us remember this, but we also have a track that we could actually use to test the car.

I'm not saying Ferrari pull out of F1 completely or at all. If anything, I'm willing to bet the F1 team could learn a whole lot while the LMP1 car gets to test... engines, transmissions, aero... just sayin.

I have said this few times, if Ferrari ever wanted to go to Le-Mans with an LMP1 and enter WEC, they would have to pull out of F1. There is no way, they could afford to run both programmes. LMP1, that in the 500 million range to be able to run with Porsche and Toyota. Think Toyota spends bit less, but last year and this Audi and Porsche were spending more than 500 million in a season. Now you want to add extra few 100 million on top of that to run in F1 and beat Mercs and RBR, thats what? 300 million? more? thats way way to much. Not feasible.

Also, 2018 there new LMP1 rules coming in. BMW entering with rumoured hydrogen-electric LMP1. There will be focus on the electric side of hybrid. So, wouldnt be surprised if Audi looks to that in the future. Cit their teeth in Formula E, for a year or so then relook at LMP1 in 2018/19.

[Nova]

Latest / Headline
No FIA disciplinary action over Vettel outbursts
Ferrari FIA Sebastian Vettel Mexico

01 Nov 2016

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Formula One racing's governing body, the FIA, has decided not to take action against Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel for using 'repeated foul language' over team radio during Sunday's race in Mexico, in light of apologies from the German and his expressed regret for his behaviour.

Vettel directed pointed remarks towards FIA race director Charlie Whiting and Red Bull driver Max Verstappen in the closing stages of the Grand Prix following a tense battle with the Dutchman.

However, in a statement issued on Tuesday the FIA said that Vettel had "spontaneously sought out Charlie Whiting to express his regrets for his behaviour in person."

"He then, again on his own initiative, sent letters to each of the FIA President Jean Todt and Charlie Whiting, in which he apologised profusely for his actions," the statement continued. "He also indicated that he would likewise be contacting Max Verstappen and vowed that such an incident would never occur again.

"In the light of this sincere apology and strong commitment, the FIA President has decided, on an exceptional basis, not to take disciplinary action against Mr Vettel by bringing this matter before the FIA International Tribunal.

"The FIA will always condemn the use of offensive language in motor sport – especially when directed at officials and/or fellow participants – and expects all participants in its Championships to be respectful and mindful of the example they set for the public and the younger generation in particular.

"The FIA takes this opportunity to advise that, in the event of any future incident similar to the one that occurred in Mexico, disciplinary action will be taken by bringing such incident before the FIA International Tribunal to be judged."

[Warp]

And now Charlie should apologize to Vettel and F1 fans for the very poor stewarding that has taken place this year.

[MAD_Junior]

I actually disagree. The drivers make these decisions in a split second. The stewards are former racing drivers who can make racing decisions and there is no reason that a decision can't be made sitting in front of TV in 2 minutes.

That is laughable. In most cases, several angles need to be looked at to determine fault, if any. The stewards are looking at video replays, the same as we are. And the replays aren't available instantly. How many times do we not see the true picture until the 2nd or 3rd angle - and super slo-mo. If the stewards do what you ask, then you'll be screaming that they screwed up the call after you had a chance to see 10 different replays on the TV.

[chris.gotfunk]

I have said this few times, if Ferrari ever wanted to go to Le-Mans with an LMP1 and enter WEC, they would have to pull out of F1. There is no way, they could afford to run both programmes. LMP1, that in the 500 million range to be able to run with Porsche and Toyota. Think Toyota spends bit less, but last year and this Audi and Porsche were spending more than 500 million in a season. Now you want to add extra few 100 million on top of that to run in F1 and beat Mercs and RBR, thats what? 300 million? more? thats way way to much. Not feasible.

Also, 2018 there new LMP1 rules coming in. BMW entering with rumoured hydrogen-electric LMP1. There will be focus on the electric side of hybrid. So, wouldnt be surprised if Audi looks to that in the future. Cit their teeth in Formula E, for a year or so then relook at LMP1 in 2018/19.

Oh wow. I had no idea that series was so expensive. I've only started getting into the WEC over the last few years and never paid attention to the budgets. Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it. So much more interesting and exciting stuff going on in that series vs F1.

[chris.gotfunk]

That is laughable. In most cases, several angles need to be looked at to determine fault, if any. The stewards are looking at video replays, the same as we are. And the replays aren't available instantly. How many times do we not see the true picture until the 2nd or 3rd angle - and super slo-mo. If the stewards do what you ask, then you'll be screaming that they screwed up the call after you had a chance to see 10 different replays on the TV.

Glad I could make you laugh. It's a career goal of mine. While you make some valid points, please keep in mind those in the FIA control room aren't waiting for network feeds to provide the replays. They have video from all cameras and all angles at all times. Check out this site as an example. http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/race_control.html So, the stewards aren't looking at the replays as we see them. They have the ability to view them under their own control.

Just wanted to clear that up a little bit because either I misunderstood your post or you are slightly misinformed how the stewards and race control review incidents.

[Silent Bob]

That is laughable. In most cases, several angles need to be looked at to determine fault, if any. The stewards are looking at video replays, the same as we are. And the replays aren't available instantly. How many times do we not see the true picture until the 2nd or 3rd angle - and super slo-mo. If the stewards do what you ask, then you'll be screaming that they screwed up the call after you had a chance to see 10 different replays on the TV.

I think in a case like Verstappen's, when a driver can't make a corner and needs to cut to the grass when under pressure from another driver, it should be automatic that he give up the position, even if he was a little in front. If the driver behind him has pressured him into an error, then that driver should take the spot. Like it has been said, if the white line was a wall or gravel trap, Max would have had to slow right down to make the turn or he would have been out of the race. And it should be done before the end of the lap, or before they reach that position again, not 3 laps to give the position back.

[dfunk257]

I actually disagree. The drivers make these decisions in a split second. The stewards are former racing drivers who can make racing decisions and there is no reason that a decision can't be made sitting in front of TV in 2 minutes.

Exactly. The stewards have all the tools at their disposal, all the footage they need to come up with a decision in 2 minutes. To make the teams, drivers and most of all the fans , wait a few hours to make these types of decisions is unacceptable. It really does turn the sport on2 its head and makes ppl not wanna watch more of it.
I totally agree with what Johnny Herbert said, just stop making these silly rules up and let the boys race!

[JHAMMER]

Welcome to Formula One the new Nascar.

[WS6TransAm01]

My god. What a PC pansy ass world we live in. Men can't talk like men anymore. Then again, I forget that this site has the same nancy rules.

If I was in Seb's place, in the car, with the stuff going down around him; the words coming out of my mouth would have made flowers wilt.

[stefa]

My god. What a PC pansy ass world we live in. Men can't talk like men anymore. Then again, I forget that this site has the same nancy rules.

If I was in Seb's place, in the car, with the stuff going down around him; the words coming out of my mouth would have made flowers wilt.

Agree!!!!

[chris.gotfunk]

My god. What a PC pansy ass world we live in. Men can't talk like men anymore. Then again, I forget that this site has the same nancy rules.

If I was in Seb's place, in the car, with the stuff going down around him; the words coming out of my mouth would have made flowers wilt.

I'm with ya there! I say the same stuff when I drive to work. In all honesty, FOM/FIA could have easily just not broadcast the message and kept it internal. But, to be honest, I don't know who controls what radio messages get broadcast or not, but I guess since it is a "business", it created some buzz/controversy and that's always good for business... right?

What I found somewhat interesting is that apparently it's ok for drivers to use that language when describing the feel of the car, other drivers, etc... and not have to issue a formal apology for foul language. Granted, he openly criticized an authority figure using foul language, and having that occur publicly is not ok. I guess CW is infallible and not able to take criticism.

[Rob]

My god. What a PC pansy ass world we live in. Men can't talk like men anymore. Then again, I forget that this site has the same nancy rules.

If I was in Seb's place, in the car, with the stuff going down around him; the words coming out of my mouth would have made flowers wilt.

you dont like the "nancy" forum rules you know what to do you.

As for Seb radio, i would of said something. But, you put some blame at FOM, they control the broadcasts of the radio messages on tv. So, they didnt really have to broadcast them. Its just adding to the "show"