Spa-Francorchamps GP Race thread

[Greig]

I wouldn't expect Vettel to leave room for a car that has all 4 wheels off track. It was a stupid move on Max's part and it was always going to cause an accident. He dove down into the inside of a corner, a space that he should have known was going to get smaller as cars turned. How is he not in the wrong? And even if Vettel is not there, then Max is counting on Kimi screwing his own line around the corner so MAx could pull off a low percentage move.

He never had all 4 wheels off the track though. Yes it was a silly move but it was a move he was entitled to make. Doing any move up the inside of someone is going to cause the other guy to change his line not quite sure why this move is suddenly something wrong.

[Sakae]

2 cars would never get round any corner if they all took THE racing line, you adapt to whats around you. Or maybe we can go back to what you previously said and everyone should wait their turn to take the racing line, then we will have no collisions ever......and no racing.

There is more that one racing line; machinery and driving technique determines how he takes it. I am not entirely clear why would you expect Vettel to give up his hard earned position for someone who screwed up his start, and then in self defeating manner is panicking on the track, trying to impress his home crowd by pulling senseless, junior like stunts, rather then behaving like matured, experienced racer who can calculate risk before he undertakes battle.

[Greig]

There is more that one racing line; machinery and driving technique determines how he takes it. I am not entirely clear why would you expect Vettel to give up his hard earned position for someone who screwed up his start, and then in self defeating manner is panicking on the track, trying to impress his home crowd by pulling senseless, junior like stunts, rather then behaving like matured, experienced racer who can calculate risk before he undertakes battle.

So if there is more than one racing line then why is Seb using another one a problem? but in reality there is one way round the corner that is the quickest. Seb moved over onto Kimi and hit him, he should be more careful as he cost us a good chance of a race win. I hope in future he gives a little extra room around his team mate. And if he is not sure where the other car is then be a bit more cautious into turn 1 when you can expect 3 abreast.

[Giallo 550]

No one is going to convince me that Verstappen's move wasn't a result of immature desperation due to him getting schooled by Seb and Kimi at the start. I believe that had Verstappen not gone into the first corner the way he did, Seb wouldn't have tagged Kimi. On the other hand, maybe he would have. We have no way of knowing. However, I also believe Kimi would have been able to take the corner tighter, had Verstappen not done what he did. Seb probably wasn't planning on having to leave another car width to prevent contact. Even if Seb didn't hit Kimi, there was no way Verstappen was going to make it through unscathed. The overwhelming majority of the time, you are going to hit another car trying to execute a pass like that. The exception is when the lead car blatantly gets out of the way, and why should either of the Ferraris do that?

[Nova]

Watched the vid a number of times..regardless of who hit who, there def wasnt space or track to fit anything in there. My opinion is fault max. What about the track limits rules? Max had to go off track to try n squeeze in there.
His whole car looked to be to the right of the line. Or doesnt that rule apply to max.

Whatever anyone believes, my take really, the race to me was very boring..Ferrari had better pace, the car looked better than the last 2 races and I didnt get to see the race with the Ferrari's fighting or get to evaluate their progress, if any. So I missed what could have been an exciting race.

[Greig]

No one is going to convince me that Verstappen's move wasn't a result of immature desperation due to him getting schooled by Seb and Kimi at the start. I believe that had Verstappen not gone into the first corner the way he did, Seb wouldn't have tagged Kimi. On the other hand, maybe he would have. We have no way of knowing. However, I also believe Kimi would have been able to take the corner tighter, had Verstappen not done what he did. The overwhelming majority of the time, you are going to hit another car trying to execute a pass like that. Even if Seb didn't hit Kimi, there was no way Verstappen was going to make it through unscathed.

Or if Seb left more room to Kimi then Kimi could move to his left? I am puzzled why Max must be blamed. As it is Max never hit Kimi, Kimi was hit into Max by Vettel.

[Rishu]

Obviously there was enough space for Max to dive in as both him & Kimi didn't make contact. Its racing, his job is to go for such gaps. Turn 1 accidents are so common & I'm surprised with experience Seb has, he should've been more cautious in the first place & that too when the car next to you is your team mate

[Giallo 550]

Or if Seb left more room to Kimi then Kimi could move to his left? I am puzzled why Max must be blamed. As it is Max never hit Kimi, Kimi was hit into Max by Vettel.

That's true, but Kimi shouldn't have to move to his left, as there was no room for Verstappen on the right to begin with. Just because Vettel hit Kimi first, it doesn't mean Verstappen wouldn't have hit Kimi ultimately. I also wonder why no one seems to care about Verstappen exceeding track limits to pass Kimi.

[Greig]

That's true, but Kimi shouldn't have to move to his left, as there was no room for Verstappen on the right to begin with. Just because Vettel hit Kimi first, it doesn't mean Verstappen wouldn't have hit Kimi ultimately. I also wonder why no one seems to care about Verstappen exceeding track limits to pass Kimi.

Everything I have seen shows Max with 2 wheels inside the track which is normally acceptable?

[Giallo 550]

Everything I have seen shows Max with 2 wheels inside the track which is normally acceptable?

Looks like both are outside here:

Screen Shot 2016-08-31 at 4.54.50 PM.jpg

[kraig1]

Vettel could never see Max there, had Max not dove to the inside, No contact between Kimi and Vettel. Max chose a bad line to make up for a poor start and left no room whatsoever for the corner to be made. I've watched numerous times and angles, bad decision for Max. Vettel looked as though cutting down on Kimi would give him the spot, but enough room for Kimi. 3 wide just won't work, who was the last driver to the corner?

[Brembo]

Admittedly I am not sure whether my reading of your input is accurate, but if you are suggesting that (i) Nico was never asked to let Lewis through, or (ii) there is no management bias between those to drivers, than I am out, because I have to disagree in most strenuous terms.

That incident you are referring to, came as a surprise to Michael, as to Baricello. That's life for you. Not everything is perfect.

Example, last race Lewis came from last place to 3rd, he's ahead on points, why wasn't Nico told to let him pass? I'm happy to see he wasn't told to move over. If it was days gone by , Michael would have been again surprised to hear Todt or Ross tell Rubens to let him pass for sure. Knowing today in F1 everyone is racing each other makes everything perfect .

[FerrariF60]

I wouldn't expect Vettel to leave room for a car that has all 4 wheels off track. It was a stupid move on Max's part and it was always going to cause an accident. He dove down into the inside of a corner, a space that he should have known was going to get smaller as cars turned. How is he not in the wrong? And even if Vettel is not there, then Max is counting on Kimi screwing his own line around the corner so MAx could pull off a low percentage move.

AMEN.....could not have said it any better myself

[DefaultSettings]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tml9H9-5IFI

Rosberg gets a penalty for that. Max does even more than that. In his bid to push kimi off track he himself goes outside on all four tyres.

Can anyone tell me why the FIA is such a big joke and nobody does anything about it?

[DelMar]

Example, last race Lewis came from last place to 3rd, he's ahead on points, why wasn't Nico told to let him pass? I'm happy to see he wasn't told to move over. If it was days gone by , Michael would have been again surprised to hear Todt or Ross tell Rubens to let him pass for sure. Knowing today in F1 everyone is racing each other makes everything perfect .

Before even mentioning Kovalainen days, didn't Merc ask Rosberg to let Lewis through in Monaco? (oh they asked him not to pass @ Malaysia 2013, etc...)

[Sakae]

Example, last race Lewis came from last place to 3rd, he's ahead on points, why wasn't Nico told to let him pass? I'm happy to see he wasn't told to move over. If it was days gone by , Michael would have been again surprised to hear Todt or Ross tell Rubens to let him pass for sure. Knowing today in F1 everyone is racing each other makes everything perfect .

Hamilton was never in a position to challenge Rosberg in Spa. Based on recent history (I think since Hungary last year), it is debatable whether both drivers are treated equally at Brackley. Already when Brawn was still there, Rosberg was asked to let Hamilton through, so no, there is not equality in the land of Hamilton. Hill claimed this happened at Williams as well. Team orders aren't unique to a one specific team. Maybe we are digressing off topic. What was the question again..? How Hamilton is great in that space ship Merc built for him?

[Sakae]

Everything I have seen shows Max with 2 wheels inside the track which is normally acceptable?

There is a new day outside my window, and there are some new turns to be taken on, but with respect to the last race, my feeling is, that it is a wrong question to ask whether Max has done something outside of a rule book. Better question IMV is, whether his move was "smart" based on cold calculation of an experienced racer, and in that regard, he gets F in my book, despite that he had every right to be silly and inexperienced, considering his age.

[Sakae]

Before even mentioning Kovalainen days, didn't Merc ask Rosberg to let Lewis through in Monaco? (oh they asked him not to pass @ Malaysia 2013, etc...)

Of course, just as RB asked Vettel to let DR through in 2014. Team orders everywhere.

[stefa]

Looks like both are outside here:

Screen Shot 2016-08-31 at 4.54.50 PM.jpg

Picture says a 1000 words....

[Sakae]

Picture says a 1000 words....

I think Verstappen's argument was, that he had initally enough space on the track and was squeezed out. His expectations were, that both Ferraris move out of his way and let him through, and that despite turn being right-hander, and despite that both Ferraris were ahead of him, because of better start. We can debate whether his thinking was correct, which I think was not. There are however hordes of his fans (add Vettel's detractors) who do not agree with me. No minds will be changed over this.

[Sakae]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wh...tappen-813653/
Boys in red aren't too happy with Max.

[Bertie]

Thinking of taking this poster to Monza if I can get it printed in time. I am posting it here first to hopefully get some feed back from the Gentlemen and gentlewomen here as I don't want it to be too much.

max poster.jpg

[Greig]

Picture says a 1000 words....

So all 4 wheels are not over the white line, so he is in a correct position.

[SilverSpeed]

Yeah and I knew this would happen but Mad Max Crashtappen told the media he will continue like this, good knowing people will talk again and that's what he wants to stir shizzle up...

[Greig]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/233215/...t1-bungle.html

Strange for Seb to say sorry when he done no wrong........

[stefa]

So all 4 wheels are not over the white line, so he is in a correct position.

On the contrary! I've said that because it is clear from the picture that MV was with all four wheels out of the track!

[Greig]

On the contrary! I've said that because it is clear from the picture that MV was with all four wheels out of the track!

Better get your eyes tested then.

[hrc5555]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/233215/...t1-bungle.html

Strange for Seb to say sorry when he done no wrong........

He wouldnt say it if he really has no blame for crash. I can not believe hi is forced to said that..

[Giallo 550]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/233215/...t1-bungle.html

Strange for Seb to say sorry when he done no wrong........

A coworker recently told me she was sorry I had a lousy summer when it wasn't her fault.

[Rob]

I kept out of this for as long as i could. I missed the race, but watched the first few laps Monday night after reading some of the posts here. Max went for a move that 90% of any race driver would of gone for on opening lap. He isnt to blame, Seb? isnt really to blame either. He made a move on outside, cut in, bit to early must be said. But its again, many drivers would of made. But if Seb would of seen Max on the inside, he wouldnt of cut in the early, instead run wide, and use some of the exit run off. The stewards tend to be bit more "relaxed" to first lap track excursions.