Formula 1 plans engine deal cost cap and ban on windtunnel use

[Ed Harley]

Formula 1 plans engine deal cost cap and ban on windtunnel use

A cost cap for engine-supply deals to customer teams and a ban on windtunnel testing have been agreed by the members of the Formula 1 Strategy Group, AUTOSPORT has learned.

Teams are spending around £15-20million per season for the 1.6-litre turbocharged V6s, which were introduced in 2014, compared to £7m during the V8 era.

In the push to reduce costs, it has now been agreed by a majority vote that current-spec engines will cost €12m (£9m), while a one-year-old spec will cost €8m (£6m).

A majority also agreed to a ban on windtunnel testing, leading to a greater use of CFD, though the specifics have yet to be discussed.

At present, both windtunnel and CFD use are limited.

Furthermore, there will be a €2m (£1.5m) cap on gearboxes, which for some teams will represent a 50 per cent saving.

The proposals must now be approved by the F1 Commission, and subsequently, the FIA World Motor Sport Council, which meets on September 30 in Paris.

Should they all go through, it is understood it could represent a cost-saving of between €20-25m (£14.5m-£18m).

The Strategy Group comprises Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull, Williams and Force India, with each team holding one vote.

F1's governing body the FIA and commercial rights holder FOM hold six votes apiece.

It is understood Williams, Ferrari and Mercedes were against a ban on windtunnel testing, while McLaren, Red Bull and Force India voted in favour.

Regarding gearbox cost-savings, only McLaren and Force India were in favour, with the FIA and FOM's votes allowing the vote to be passed by majority.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120865

[erinha]

Very short-sighted to do these now. They are running the sport and the show into the ground.

[TigerKing]

This could mean they are pushing downforce to ground effect which I am all for! If we tunnels are banned and ground effect isn't introduced, it will kill the sport for sure. Engines should be cheaper if you ask me.

[stefa]

Why not ban everything?! Give them bicycles and that will solve everything!!!!

[Greig]

So if 3 voted to ban wind tunnel testing, and 3 voted to not ban it then how is that a majority?

Ferrari will veto it anyway.

[Hornet]

The pinnacle of motorsport can't afford to use wind tunnel, a fundamental tool in car design.

I think they are going about the wrong way, when they throw all sort of development restriction ideas and see what gets voted. Teams are going to vote based on what suits them and no one will think about the sport as a whole. And so each time someone demands cost cutting, another essential part of development gets cut by popular demand. At some point they are going to be just showing up on track and trust their luck to get the car right.

Meanwhile there's a huge glaring issue about money distribution that no one wants to talk about.

So IMO, there's no balance here when they only keep cutting development cost without thinking of the consequence it has on the sport. We've already seen what happened when we took away mid season development, and restrict PU development at the time it was needed the most.

[erinha]

Basically:

- No PU development,
- No aero development,
- No testing.

They should just give out all the trophies to the driver and team winning the Australian GP.

[jragona]

Basically:

- No PU development,
- No aero development,
- No testing.

They should just give out all the trophies to the driver and team winning the Australian GP.

- No excitement

[erinha]

0 cost.

[TigerKing]

Hornet has a valuable argument. Cutting costs should be the only thing addressed. The prize money distribution is crazy and should be changed. We and Red Bull get too much money just for "history". I dont see the Green Bay packers getting money just for being an old public owned team.

[Greig]

Hornet has a valuable argument. Cutting costs should be the only thing addressed. The prize money distribution is crazy and should be changed. We and Red Bull get too much money just for "history". I dont see the Green Bay packers getting money just for being an old public owned team.

Red Bull get very little money for "history" as they are a relatively new team. Williams get more than Red Bull.

[Rob]

can not see this windtunnel ban going through, after all, nearly all the teams got one and like us most have had a very expensive upgrade. Said this before, limit the usage of tunnels, and bring back testing. But, use our track at Fiorano. We could charge the teams that want to come along just small fee. Nothing out of this world charge. But, all Ferrari powered engined cars test for free.

In my eyes, i agree with Ted Kravitz, why not have a spec gearbox. All the gearboxes out there now are all pretty much the same anyway. They still not looking at the bigger problem with F1, the revenue distrubtion.

[TigerKing]

Rob, you should run for FIA president next time around.

[wisepie]

There has to be a sensible division of income for the teams to survive, if we want the spectacle that F1 should be, we need an equal playing field with the lesser teams able to at least be competitive. Costs are currently ridiculous, freezing development and no testing reduces the ability to make F1 a proper show, and to keep changing parameters and regulations automatically makes it more difficult for the lesser-funded teams to keep up. There's no simple answer but Ferrari have just spent millions on a new wind tunnel, I feel that F1 needs to adopt a stable set of rules and regulations so that costs do not keep spiralling out of control.

[Brembo]

Why not ban everything?! Give them bicycles and that will solve everything!!!!

Stefa, calm down! Your begining to sound like me. That's not good.

[vcs316]

Windtunnels could become 'obsolete' in F1 if teams update CFD

Windtunnels could one day be rendered obsolete in Formula 1 if teams are able to upgrade their dated CFD systems, says McLaren racing director Eric Boullier.

A windtunnel ban with greater CFD use was proposed at Monday's meeting of the F1 Strategy Group as the push to reduce costs continues.

Teams are currently allowed up to 25 hours per week of windtunnel time or 25 teraflops of CFD data or a combination of both.

Boullier believes that before Formula 1 can begin to consider increasing the reliance on CFD, the technology must be updated and if that happens, McLaren would readily introduce it.

"On the CFD topic there is a lot of discussion for months about the regulation," said Boullier.

"It appears this teraflop restriction has pushed the engineers, as usual, to go to the limit of the regulations and we basically had to use some old chips.

"The consequence of this is we are not using the latest technology in terms of computing.

"We don't think it's good for Formula 1 to use 10-year-old technology - we are supposed to be at the top."

"Some discussions have taken place about changing the regulation from this teraflop story to an energy bandwidth control.

"This would allow more freedom for the teams to do what they want with their computers, but still being regulated, the same with the FIA.

"That's something we are very much in favour of, because it would be right for F1.

"Then on the windtunnels if you allow the CFD development maybe one day windtunnels could be obsolete.

"We would be happy to implement [the new technology] as soon as possible."

Boullier added that plans for a new windtunnel at McLaren's HQ in Woking hinge on the outcome of the windtunnel proposals.

"There is still a plan to make a new windtunnel, but we need some confirmation about long term commitment," he said.

"You are not going to invest a lot of money if the regulation will change in two years.

"We have different scenarios in place including an upgrade of the current windtunnel we are using."

Williams deputy team principal Claire Williams said in Singapore her team would not support a ban on windtunnels.

"We absolutely do not and will never vote for the banning of windtunnels in Formula 1," said Williams, whose team has two tunnels at its HQ in Grove.

"How can you operate at the pinnacle of motorsport and not use one of the finest tools in aerodynamics? It doesn't make any sense to us."

Mercedes chief Toto Wolff added: "We are a road car manufacturer and we have just commissioned a brand new windtunnel in Stuttgart.

"A windtunnel is needed today to put a car on the street, verify what's being done in CFD and to get correlation."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120903

[aroutis]

Red Bull get very little money for "history" as they are a relatively new team. Williams get more than Red Bull.

You might want to check facts, RBR actually gets more , now how is that possible is rather interesting.

http://www.grandprixtimes.com/news/display/10239?

RBR gets the second biggest premium behind Ferrari.

[harry harris]

Why not ban everything?! Give them bicycles and that will solve everything!!!!

problemo solve

[Hornet]

I'm not sure how CFD can replace wind tunnel completely. In wind tunnel, although it is a simulated environment, we're still letting the law of physics show us how the air flows around the car. In CFD, we have to simulate the laws of physics itself, which is not as accurate as the real thing. CFD can help narrow down which design works better, but we still need the real world testing to confirm it actually works.

I believe it's the same when you look at any other engineering field. Computer simulation can only help up to a certain point, and they still have to do real world testing to confirm things.

[vcs316]

You might want to check facts, RBR actually gets more , now how is that possible is rather interesting.

http://www.grandprixtimes.com/news/display/10239?

RBR gets the second biggest premium behind Ferrari.

RBR & Ferrari jumped ship and signed the last Concorde agreement which is why they are getting more money. I remember there was a stand-off between all the teams & Bernie regarding the signing of the agreement. Bernie made the pot a bit more lucrative and RBR & Ferrari signed & left others to fend for themselves.

[mirafiori]

Why not ban everything?! Give them bicycles and that will solve everything!!!!

Very funny stefa; on a serious note it's all getting very silly and the rule makers need to calm down and let Ferrari wave it's flag on the podium. Forza Ferrari.

[vcs316]

Ferrari chief Maurizio Arrivabene questions F1 windtunnel ban idea

Ferrari team principal Maurizio Arrivabene has questioned the wisdom of imposing a windtunnel ban in Formula 1, adding he believes the current restrictions are sufficient.

The regulations allow teams are allowed up to 25 hours per week of windtunnel time or 25 teraflops of CFD data - or a combination of both.

However, an outright ban on windtunnel use was proposed at last week's meeting of the F1 Strategy Group as part of discussions to reduce costs of competing in the championship.

Arrivabene said: "Would you like to drive your car without being in the windtunnel, if it's quite powerful? I ask this question.

"We already have restrictions on windtunnels, why do we need more? That's it."

Toro Rosso boss Franz Tost is also against a ban on windtunnels, suggesting that such a proposal would ultimately drive up costs.

"We should keep a balance," he said. "I think if we reduce the windtunnel running time, also reduce CFD, then this is the right way.

"But not to ban anything because there is another way to compensate for it which is much more expensive in the end.

"I'm against banning windtunnel usage because there's always a reason behind it.

"Some teams are pushing to ban anything, whatever it is, because maybe they don't have the proper infrastructure or maybe they have an advantage with another tool."

The comments come after Mercedes chief Toto Wolff and Williams deputy team principal Claire Williams insisted windtunnels do have a place in F1.

Williams said: "How can you operate at the pinnacle of motorsport and not use one of the finest tools in aerodynamics?"

Wolff added: "A windtunnel is needed today to put a car on the street, verify what's being done in CFD and get correlation."

In contrast, McLaren racing director Eric Boullier believes windtunnels could one day be rendered "obsolete" if teams are able to upgrade their dated CFD systems.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120951?

[Hornet]

Torro Rosso is right. Banning wind tunnel will only shift the spending towards creating more powerful CFD.

[zike]

Ferrari chief Maurizio Arrivabene questions F1 windtunnel ban idea

Ferrari team principal Maurizio Arrivabene has questioned the wisdom of imposing a windtunnel ban in Formula 1, adding he believes the current restrictions are sufficient.

The regulations allow teams are allowed up to 25 hours per week of windtunnel time or 25 teraflops of CFD data - or a combination of both.

However, an outright ban on windtunnel use was proposed at last week's meeting of the F1 Strategy Group as part of discussions to reduce costs of competing in the championship.

Arrivabene said: "Would you like to drive your car without being in the windtunnel, if it's quite powerful? I ask this question.

"We already have restrictions on windtunnels, why do we need more? That's it."

Toro Rosso boss Franz Tost is also against a ban on windtunnels, suggesting that such a proposal would ultimately drive up costs.

"We should keep a balance," he said. "I think if we reduce the windtunnel running time, also reduce CFD, then this is the right way.

"But not to ban anything because there is another way to compensate for it which is much more expensive in the end.

"I'm against banning windtunnel usage because there's always a reason behind it.

"Some teams are pushing to ban anything, whatever it is, because maybe they don't have the proper infrastructure or maybe they have an advantage with another tool."

The comments come after Mercedes chief Toto Wolff and Williams deputy team principal Claire Williams insisted windtunnels do have a place in F1.

Williams said: "How can you operate at the pinnacle of motorsport and not use one of the finest tools in aerodynamics?"

Wolff added: "A windtunnel is needed today to put a car on the street, verify what's being done in CFD and get correlation."

In contrast, McLaren racing director Eric Boullier believes windtunnels could one day be rendered "obsolete" if teams are able to upgrade their dated CFD systems.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120951?

So we are against it, Merc is and Williams to.....so no way they can pass the ban

[zamlatuljko]

They want to reduce costs but have f1 calendar in chaos...What I want to say, we have europe season then we go to Singapour and Japan and return to Russia then flew to Usa?

If they want to make this restrictions also must give teams opportunity to have some alternatives.

Two tyre supplier, two or three engines spec, example v6 with ers 160bhp or v8 with 100bhp...to know what I mean.

But this restriction to all movement in f1 isnt good. I mean drivers cant allowed to use national flag on winners lap, no more bluffing to pit lane with pit crew...