Pirelli says F1 teams ignored request for tyre limits in 2013

[Rob]

By Ian Parkes Sunday, August 23rd 2015, 22:37 GMT

Pirelli believes Sebastian Vettel's tyre blowout in the Belgian Grand Prix could have been avoided if Formula 1 had accepted a request two years ago to limit tyre usage.

Vettel was left fuming following the race at Spa-Francorchamps as his bid for third place was wrecked by a dramatic right-rear tyre explosion on his Ferrari along the Kemmel Straight on the penultimate lap.

The four-time champion escaped unharmed, but suggested the incident could have led to more serious consequences if it had occurred 200 metres earlier climbing through Eau Rouge.

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery later suggested he was "surprised" at Ferrari's strategy of running a one-stop plan, with Vettel switching from soft to medium-compound rubber on lap 14 of 43.

Although the team was given an indication wear life would be 40 laps, Hembery claimed that was no guarantee as the circumstances of a race play a significant part.

Pirelli has now issued a statement arguing if it had been listened to in 2013 then its brush with the headlines would not have happened.

The statement read: "Regarding what happened at the Belgian Grand Prix, Pirelli underlines that: In November 2013, Pirelli requested there should be rules to govern the maximum number of laps that can be driven on the same set of tyres, among other parameters to do with correct tyre usage.

"This request was not accepted.

"The proposal put forward a maximum distance equivalent to 50 per cent of the grand prix distance for the prime tyre and 30 per cent for the option.

"These conditions, if applied at Spa, would have limited the maximum number of laps on the medium compound to 22."

It was a point noted by Hembery post-race in the paddock when asked as to whether a tyre should only be allowed to run for a maximum number of laps.

Hembery said: "We discussed that a few years ago when obviously we were a little more aggressive and people were pushing out stints to try and reduce the number of stops.

"It's very hard to enforce because you take away maybe the impact of the engineering aspect to the car where somebody might be able to engineer the car to a point where they can reduce the number of pitstops, and at that time it wasn't feasible to actually introduce it.

"Now, maybe we can go back to the advice levels, and say no more than 'x' amount of laps on a certain tyre."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120461

[Rob]

They can not push this through, to make a new rule to limit number of laps to run on tyres. There goes race strategy. They just trying to cover their own backsides. Even, me, if i was given tyre info saying said tyres will last 40 laps, ok, lets do a 30 lap stint on them if we can make them last that long. If start loosing grip earlier pit. But yesterday, team saw data saying tyres ok, and can make it to the end. And Seb was happy to go that way.

[mirafiori]

They can not push this through, to make a new rule to limit number of laps to run on tyres. There goes race strategy. They just trying to cover their own backsides. Even, me, if i was given tyre info saying said tyres will last 40 laps, ok, lets do a 30 lap stint on them if we can make them last that long. If start loosing grip earlier pit. But yesterday, team saw data saying tyres ok, and can make it to the end. And Seb was happy to go that way.

Very true Rob, We were robbed of a podium place and it's still hurts thinking about the race, anyway we move on to Monza and let's hope Ferrari engine upgrade will bring us some joy and there is no where better for this to happen in front of the Tifosi. Forza Ferrari.

[erinha]

It was just horrendously dangerous. Never mind the points, podium, or the championship. It is unacceptable. Tyres should lose performance, not blow out before even the rubber is gone.

[FerrariSteve]

Pirelli forever talking out of their backsides. Hembery is a total idiot and forever covering up for his shoddy and dangerous tyres.

Fetch Bridgestone back please! Get rid of Pirelli cheese tyres!

[TigerKing]

Then won't all teams pit 30% for primes then at 80% for options? Kinda defeats the purpose.

[Tony]

Wasn't it already said that the tyres hadn't dropped off yet as the lap times did not decrease significantly? Wouldn't that mean the tyres failed on their own... who is Pirelli trying to fool?

[REDARMYSOJA]

Wasn't it already said that the tyres hadn't dropped off yet as the lap times did not decrease significantly? Wouldn't that mean the tyres failed on their own... who is Pirelli trying to fool?

Exactly. Seb was still turning good times, good enough to keep Grosjean at bay. I saw the lap times from that set and there had been very little drop off. The explosion obviously wasn't due to wear.

[PURE PASSION]

Exactly. Seb was still turning good times, good enough to keep Grosjean at bay. I saw the lap times from that set and there had been very little drop off. The explosion obviously wasn't due to wear.

The laptimes that Vettel was producing at the time of the failure did not suggest he had hit a performance drop-off, while it is understood that there was no indication on Ferrari's data of variations in tyre temperature or pressure to suggest that a problem was imminent.

Furthermore, there are suggestions that initial analysis of Vettel's remaining tyres have found no evidence of excessive wear either.

[erinha]

By: Jonathan Noble, Formula 1 Editor
6 hours ago

Ferrari and Pirelli are set for talks over Sebastian Vettel's Belgian Grand Prix tyre failure, as both parties worked on Monday to try to find answers as to what exactly happened.

Investigations into the exact cause of Vettel's tyre failure are ongoing, as both team and tyre supplier want to fully understand why the right rear failed on the penultimate lap.

Although Pirelli remains adamant that the failure was related to tyre wear – with the set of mediums having completed 28 laps – there remains some scepticism about whether or not that was the key contributing factor.

The laptimes that Vettel was producing at the time of the failure did not suggest he had hit a performance drop-off, while it is understood that there was no indication on Ferrari's data of variations in tyre temperature or pressure to suggest that a problem was imminent.

Furthermore, there are suggestions that initial analysis of Vettel's remaining tyres have found no evidence of excessive wear either.

The situation is further intriguing because a failure through over use would likely manifest itself on the most stressed corner of the car, which around Spa is the front left.

Talks necessary

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery has admitted that his company and Ferrari will need to discuss the situation as soon as they have the answers.

"Teams make decisions based on the data they have and in this case there is something that did not work out between us and them," he explained.

"It's easy to say now, but we have always had good co-operation with Ferrari. So we will sit at a table to find the best solutions."

Ferrari ready to respond

Ferrari team principal Mauricio Arrivabene was eager not to get drawn in to a war of words with Pirelli over accusations it pushed for too long with the tyres.

However, he said that it was important the truth came out when the full details of what happened to Vettel's tyre were clear.

"First I want to make some checks with the technicians because we want to be fair and do not want in any way to open the controversy between us and the Pirelli," he said.

"What has happened has happened. If someone wants to attack us we are ready to respond."

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...l-tyre-failure

[Nova]

Wasn't it already said that the tyres hadn't dropped off yet as the lap times did not decrease significantly? Wouldn't that mean the tyres failed on their own... who is Pirelli trying to fool?

I read this too. Blowouts a few years ago, blowouts now...what, dont these guys do any research?
Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear. On a side note, Hembrey doesnt make the tires..he has the thankless
job of covering Pirelli's backside.
Whats strange is that Pirelli make great tires for roadcars, and other forms of competition..they
just cant seem to get F1 proper.

[erinha]

Well.. Now Mercedes bosses (Wolff and Lauda) criticized Vettel because he had criticized Pirelli. What about that one...

[Tony]

I would go so far as to say that Mercedes are in bed with Pirelli (especially after the secret tyre tests a few years back). It's similar to Ferrari/Bridgestone...

[Dino]

Exactly. Seb was still turning good times, good enough to keep Grosjean at bay. I saw the lap times from that set and there had been very little drop off. The explosion obviously wasn't due to wear.

1:56.128

1:56.184

1:56.008

1:56.115

1:56.348

2:22.634 - VSC

2:04.049 - VSC

1:55.397

1:55.386

1:55.808

1:55.765

1:55.856

1:55.551

1:55.316

1:55.523

1:55.432

1:55.443

1:55.497

1:55.761

1:55.884

1:55.711

1:55.520

1:55.696

1:56.407

1:55.949

1:56.116
Our Team was right!There was no drop (or over the cliff)+ we where told tyres are ok for 40 laps by Pirelli themselveves

[erinha]

Those are some amazingly consistent times though. Wow. All within 0.7 sec for 26 laps. And the ones in the end despite the defense which slows you down a bit.

[Giallo 550]

I have a better idea, Hembery. Instead of creating more unnecessary rules to cover for your crappy tires, how about F1 hires a company that knows how to make tires like Michelin or Bridgestone? There's no excuse for a tire exploding after 29 laps when the wear life is supposedly 40. Ferrari wasn't playing with fire and they had a good strategy with the information that was provided to them, not to mention everyone knows the SF15-T is easy on rubber.

[Giallo 550]

Well.. Now Mercedes bosses (Wolff and Lauda) criticized Vettel because he had criticized Pirelli. What about that one...

Any link available? If that's the case, then it's incredibly hypocritical of them because Rosberg's exploded during FP for no reason.

[gjoko-mkd]

Pirelli found more tyre cuts over Belgian GP weekend

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pi...ian-gp-weekend

[erinha]

Any link available? If that's the case, then it's incredibly hypocritical of them because Rosberg's exploded during FP for no reason.

http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/08/...ck-on-pirelli/

[Giallo 550]

http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/08/...ck-on-pirelli/

Much appreciated.

Anybody can see they took a performance risk that appeared to be paying off, not a safety one. It's bad enough Vettel got a DNF. The fact that they felt the need to open their mouths when they have no idea what's going on in the Ferrari pit makes them even more unlikeable and is just salt in the wound. If Ferrari can't beat them in 2016, I hope Williams wipes the floor with them.

[DelMar]

Well, it is understandable!

It was not very long ago when Mercedes cheated with the help of Pirelli. Remember the secret tire test with black helmets? I think this is just a thank you...

[erinha]

On the other hand Lotus and Force India spoke up about the situation too:

Alain Permane - Lotus: "If Pirelli tells us the tyres last 40 laps, they can’t possibly blow up after 28 laps. For us a one-stop strategy was only a backup plan, but we considered it as well."

Andy Green - Force India: "If Vettel’s tyres had been worn out, he’d have come into the pits. As soon as the rubber is worn below 30% the lap times go up by two to three seconds and tyre temperatures drop from 140°C to 110°C. You’re driving on ice in that case, you won’t even get anywhere near critical wear. Your team would call you in long before that happens."

Despite Mercedes criticizing Vettel, we also heard drivers like Rosberg and Grosjean in agreement with Vettel.

There is a Pirelli engineer sitting in Ferrari garage. What was he doing? Arrivabene: "We have an engineer from Pirelli - what do you think he is for? He’s not there to chew gum but to follow all the runs. We had zero warning. I can show you the paper."

Paul Hembery: "Teams make decisions based on the data they have and in this case there is something that did not work out between us and them. It's easy to say now, but we have always had good co-operation with Ferrari. So we will sit at a table to find the best solutions."

[TigerKing]

On the other hand Lotus and Force India spoke up about the situation too:

Alain Permane - Lotus: "If Pirelli tells us the tyres last 40 laps, they can’t possibly blow up after 28 laps. For us a one-stop strategy was only a backup plan, but we considered it as well."

Andy Green - Force India: "If Vettel’s tyres had been worn out, he’d have come into the pits. As soon as the rubber is worn below 30% the lap times go up by two to three seconds and tyre temperatures drop from 140°C to 110°C. You’re driving on ice in that case, you won’t even get anywhere near critical wear. Your team would call you in long before that happens."

Despite Mercedes criticizing Vettel, we also heard drivers like Rosberg and Grosjean in agreement with Vettel.

There is a Pirelli engineer sitting in Ferrari garage. What was he doing? Arrivabene: We have an engineer from Pirelli - what do you think he is for? He’s not there to chew gum but to follow all the runs. We had zero warning. I can show you the paper."

Paul Hembery: "Teams make decisions based on the data they have and in this case there is something that did not work out between us and them. It's easy to say now, but we have always had good co-operation with Ferrari. So we will sit at a table to find the best solutions."

Great point Erinha; oftentimes we assume the few speak for the masses.

[The Architect]

Contemptible. So he suggested 2 years ago they should have a maximum distance to cover his backside? If his proposal were ever allowed to happen, F1 would be held ransom to 3/4 stop races everywhere.

I suggested 4 years ago that they shouldn't produce such a rubbish product.

[Rob]

PIRELLI, FERRARI MOVE TO END VETTEL-FUELLED 'WAR'

Tuesday 25 August at 09:35 : Aug.25 (GMM) Pirelli and Ferrari, both Italian companies, will get together prior to the forthcoming Italian grand prix.

The meeting follows the explosion of a controversy at the Belgian grand prix, where Sebastian Vettel launched an expletive-filled tirade after a tyre blowout at Spa-Francorchamps.

"Nobody has ever seen him so angry," said the Italian daily Corriere dello Sport.

La Repubblica, another newspaper, added: "A war has broken out between Ferrari and Pirelli."

So it emerges that chiefs Maurizio Arrivabene, James Allison and Paul Hembery will sit down to clear the air before the next racing action begins at Monza next weekend.

Hembery, Pirelli's F1 boss, told Bild newspaper he can understand Vettel's "emotional outburst", including an angry face-to-face in the Spa paddock.

"He lost the podium in the penultimate lap," said the Briton, "but we will certainly sit down and talk about it calmly."

Hembery is also quoted by Spain's Marca: "The teams make decisions based on the data they have and, in this case, something went wrong between us and them.

"Our goal is always to have a good cooperation with Ferrari. So let's sit down at a table to find the best solutions."

Ferrari team boss Arrivabene added: "First we want to do some checking on the technical side, because we want to be fair and not in any way open an argument between us and Pirelli."

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/artic...%27war%27.html

[Ilsan]

It seems like either his team or FIA has warned him, Rosberg is now toeing the party line and showing supports for Pirelli.

[Giallo 550]

I honestly think that Vettel's reaction showed that he was still fighting for the 2015 championship. If he wasn't, I don't think he would have been quite as emotional.

[erinha]

I honestly think that Vettel's reaction showed that he was still fighting for the 2015 championship. If he wasn't, I don't think he would have been quite as emotional.

That might be the case. Or it might be that his tyre blew out at 300 km/h. Safety concern? He had another accident at Eau Rouge at lower formula, almost lost the finger, another driver drove into his flying tyre.
In the end, he emphasized the fact that the tyre should not blow out more than anything else. It has a big effect on both the championship and safety for the drivers.
Some people on other forums said that he wanted this sort of tyres in 2013, but the fact is then or now he's been arguing against tyre blowouts.

[Ilsan]

IMO, it's more of the last straw case. From his interview and what said in drivers briefing you see basically there's no trust between the drivers and Pirelli and frustrations have been accumulating. Drivers and teams are generally not happy with its quality, they are far from convinced by Pirelli's go to excuses (debris, cut tyres, driver went wide) but not allowed to criticize the partner in public. With multiple zero-warning explosions at high speed track it's becoming clear that it is not only about performance quality problem but a serious safety issue that cannot be brushed off.

Strangely enough, with this incident Pirelli didn't even bother doing any investigation and instantly blamed Ferrari and Vettel. However, so far it's been confirmed by all sources that the strategy was well within the Pirelli's guideline, there was zero warning sign (pressure, lap time drop off, temperature, etc.) and actually the three remaining tyres were not worn out excessively. Even worn-out tyres should not explode like that would be inconceivable concept for them judging by their stance in that ridiculous press release. (Who do they think they are? Seriously you believe blaming the teams for not accepting 'we should dictate the strategy' proposal two years ago is a valid argument here?)

And that's the worrying part. Every time they squarely deny any possibility that their product may have a problem, so have no chance to address any actual issues. With that attitude this is another trivial happening and we just need to move on. As Vettel said, what else needs to happen?



Edit: I'm loving this. Concise and straight.

[erinha]

That's very nice to read after such an incident

This is Coulthard on what happened at Spa: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34043197