Fry doubts head start for one of the engine makers

[vcs316]

Ferrari technical boss Pat Fry on Friday said he doubts one engine maker will get a big head start on its rivals in 2014. There are paddock rumours that suggest Mercedes will have up to a 100 horse power advantage over engine rivals Ferrari and Renault with its new turbo V6 technology.

On the other hand, it has been said Ferrari is delighted with the 2014 rules, because it gives the Italian marque a chance to impress with its expertise in engine design, after an era mostly obsessed with aerodynamic gains. Fry, however, told Germany's Auto Motor und Sport: "Aerodynamics will be as important next year as it was in the last 15 years."

He thinks outright engine power and performance will not be the crucial factor. "The differences between the different engines will mainly be determined by reliability," said the Briton. "The technology is so complex that five units per driver is really very little. I believe large differences performance-wise will not arise -- perhaps in the race, when the fuel consumption determines the power."

At the same time, Fry thinks it is possible the start of the new era in 2014 will open the door to a major technical innovation, a la the double diffuser of 2009. "The aerodynamic regulations are pretty clear," he said, "but I do see a few ways to interpret things differently. There will be solutions that have not previously been seen," revealed Fry.

Meanwhile, after Red Bull's Adrian Newey admitted his 2014 car is 'ugly', Fry refused to say the next scarlet single seater will be similarly unseemly. "If it wins," he smiled, "then no."

(GMM)

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/fry-d...engine-makers?

[brembo man]

I'll take 100 hp. advantage over any areo improvements come this next season. And Ferrari knows how to build engines!

[FerrariF60]

isn't the HP of the engines set by the rules??? how can one build and engine that has 100 hp advantage over the others??? that doesn't make sense; that SHOULDN'T be allowed, should IT??

i mean i understand that it is really hard to make an engine with EXACT number of horse power....so i can see a differnence of 5 maybe 10 HP give or take difference, but 100 HP, that is crazy and that engine manufacturer has to be disqualified....OF course unless it is FERRARI.....LOL

[Kiwi Nick]

The notion that one engine maker will produce an engine that makes significantly more power than the others, is a fantasy perpetrated by someone who has not read the rules or is merely trying to get attention. The new engines are so tightly speced that a 10ph difference would be a big deal. When the specs limit the air and fuel flow, the exact dimensions of the combustion chambers, the boost pressure, the materials that may or may not be use to build the engine and the type of fuel used, it is virtually impossible to produce more hp than your competitor. It is more likely that a fuel and lubricants supplier can affect the output of the engine than the engine maker.

Everybody who is running around saying that the 2014 cars will be most impacted by the new engine rules needs to read the regulations. The spec is so tight that all the engines, from a performance standpoint, will be the same. Where they may vary is in reliability and perhaps weight. The real impact of the new engines will be how the affect the packaging of the car. And it is not simply the engine but the "power unit", that collection of batteries, motors, flywheels, turbochargers, air boxes, coolers and the engine that represent a radical change from 2013. How those are packaged will separate the winners from the losers. When Fry says that aero will be just as important as in the past he is absolutely right. I would argue that since the 2014 power unit is so different that aero and packaging will be even more important.

[GrndLkNatv]

The notion that one engine maker will produce an engine that makes significantly more power than the others, is a fantasy perpetrated by someone who has not read the rules or is merely trying to get attention. The new engines are so tightly speced that a 10ph difference would be a big deal. When the specs limit the air and fuel flow, the exact dimensions of the combustion chambers, the boost pressure, the materials that may or may not be use to build the engine and the type of fuel used, it is virtually impossible to produce more hp than your competitor. It is more likely that a fuel and lubricants supplier can affect the output of the engine than the engine maker.

Everybody who is running around saying that the 2014 cars will be most impacted by the new engine rules needs to read the regulations. The spec is so tight that all the engines, from a performance standpoint, will be the same. Where they may vary is in reliability and perhaps weight. The real impact of the new engines will be how the affect the packaging of the car. And it is not simply the engine but the "power unit", that collection of batteries, motors, flywheels, turbochargers, air boxes, coolers and the engine that represent a radical change from 2013. How those are packaged will separate the winners from the losers. When Fry says that aero will be just as important as in the past he is absolutely right. I would argue that since the 2014 power unit is so different that aero and packaging will be even more important.

Nick,
I can see there being way more significance in the packaging and aero this year due to the need to disperse lots more heat given the turbo, intercooler, exhaust energy recovery, etc. I would imagine the side pods will be much wider than last year with the need for more surface area on the heat exchangers in order to disperse that heat. I think the differences in BHP might be a bit higher than 10bhp at the beginning of the season but again as you said, all regulated by the fuel restrictions and rev limits. From what I have been told and read over 13000rpm there is no gain in bhp due to the fuel restrictions although those who figure out better efficiency might be able to obtain small gains over the 13000rpm area. Don't forget this year we are limited to 8 gears in the cars, none of which are changeable during the season in regard to ratio. From what I have been told 8th gear will only be used at Monza, the rest of the tracks will only see 1st through 6th and 7th will be used at Spa and other tracks but 8th probably only at Monza. It's going to be interesting, but I wish the FIA would quit tightening the screws, they have over regulated the series now and the cars are moving backward. Soon another guy named Gilles will be driving the 126C in the series in 2015. We are almost back to the 1980's in terms of tech, and these FIA folks are only going to make it worse..

[Kiwi Nick]

Nick,
I can see there being way more significance in the packaging and aero this year due to the need to disperse lots more heat given the turbo, intercooler, exhaust energy recovery, etc. I would imagine the side pods will be much wider than last year with the need for more surface area on the heat exchangers in order to disperse that heat. I think the differences in BHP might be a bit higher than 10bhp at the beginning of the season but again as you said, all regulated by the fuel restrictions and rev limits. From what I have been told and read over 13000rpm there is no gain in bhp due to the fuel restrictions although those who figure out better efficiency might be able to obtain small gains over the 13000rpm area. Don't forget this year we are limited to 8 gears in the cars, none of which are changeable during the season in regard to ratio. From what I have been told 8th gear will only be used at Monza, the rest of the tracks will only see 1st through 6th and 7th will be used at Spa and other tracks but 8th probably only at Monza. It's going to be interesting, but I wish the FIA would quit tightening the screws, they have over regulated the series now and the cars are moving backward. Soon another guy named Gilles will be driving the 126C in the series in 2015. We are almost back to the 1980's in terms of tech, and these FIA folks are only going to make it worse..

I agree with everything you said. It occurred to me that engine mapping may be very significant this year. Given the limits on air and fuel flow, which will ultimately cap bhp, getting the optimum toque output and timing will be critical.

[Nova]

I think the rules could be interesting and exciting..my biggest problem is w/fuel restriction..
I cannot figure out why the fia imposed this rule on what is supposed to be the highest form of motorsport.
Oh, and that they have to use 2 compounds of tires in a race..always thought to be artificial n silly.