US GP 2013 - Race Thread

[FA fan]

The truth is that Ferrari doesn't deserve second place in the championship. If that happens, they'll be telling us that we've once again fought to the last race, bla, bla, bla, but if they finish third or fourth, it will be the wake up call everybody deserves.

Sometimes I feel that we've been hiding behind fairly decent results recently, and all we need is one really bad result to finally get us going.

Well it's about time they get a wake up call:)

[Ealdfrith]

Nice to read some objective comments about SV, although we are all Ferrari fans, sometimes people fail to appreciate his great talent.

He may not be the coolest guy around, but I'm one of those who would certainly not mind him driving a red car to victory.

Great talent? Mr. Multi 21? Don't let him (Mark) get near me? Boohoo the tyres don't work for us? All mechanical failures happening on Mark's car?

If you watch Vettel's onboard camera you can notice him missing apexes, going on the throttle sooner than anyone else on the field and making no corrections whatsoever. Any mid-ranked driver would be able to do what he does, which is pretty much just not foul up his car.

I will start believing he's as good as they're trying to sell him whenever I see him get good results out of a crappy car. In the meantime, out of four championships he's got, two of them his car steamrollered the rest of the field alone, and when it wasn't so ridiculously superior won by a margin of 3/4 points to a Ferrari which wasn't at the same level.

[Giallo 550]

I appreciated Felipe a lot until he said that he was racing only for himself and suddenly became capable of racing Fernando and Fernando alone, once ALO got past him he just diluted... and this will cost Ferrari dear in the WCC.

Rubbish.

[Bubbles]

Great talent? Mr. Multi 21? Don't let him (Mark) get near me? Boohoo the tyres don't work for us? All mechanical failures happening on Mark's car?

If you watch Vettel's onboard camera you can notice him missing apexes, going on the throttle sooner than anyone else on the field and making no corrections whatsoever. Any mid-ranked driver would be able to do what he does, which is pretty much just not foul up his car.

I will start believing he's as good as they're trying to sell him whenever I see him get good results out of a crappy car. In the meantime, out of four championships he's got, two of them his car steamrollered the rest of the field alone, and when it wasn't so ridiculously superior won by a margin of 3/4 points to a Ferrari which wasn't at the same level.

You said it all.

[wisepie]

It seems I have made a poor job of explaining my point of view: I have never said that Massa has always been a bad driver, let alone that Ferrari shouldn't be thankful for having had him. He's done a great job most of his career with the Scuderia, even fighting for the title (damn you Glock!) and being a devoted team player for most of his career.

However, in the past two years his performances have been, in the best of cases and always in my humble opinion, poor. Surely I am not the only one to see it this way, considering that Massa got his contract renewed on a yearly basis and always with strong rumours of him being replaced.

http://grandprixrankings.com/compare...-versus-massa/
http://grandprixrankings.com/compare...-versus-massa/

Wanting the best for Ferrari, as I always have, I think that the Scuderia and Felipe should have parted ways long ago, and that's why I applaud Kimi comeback. First, he will score much more points for Ferrari, second we will have the best line-up in the grid (IMO) and last but not least, he will force Fernando to up his game and not become complacent.

I'm open to criticism and I see that for many here loyalty is a great selling card, but hey, this is Ferrari we're talking about. Results matter! Isn't it true that we all want to see the constructors standing start with an Italian flag for a change? And both our drivers fighting for number one in the grid?

Well, that's your opinion, backed up with points comparisons, so it must be right. I'm not necessarily criticising your viewpoint as there is some truth that sometimes Felipe has performed poorly, but the points don't tell the whole story and there's no guarantee Kimi wouldn't have thrown the toys out of the pram long before now if he'd been in an F138.

[wisepie]

I said:

and Ealdfrith got mad with me:


I fail to see what, in my remark about Grosjean, motivated your hissy fit.
Neither I see the relationship between the praising of Romain race and my "dear Felipe". I suppose that your sudden tantrum got you slightly confused.
And yes, Massa is "my dear Felipe" and always will be.
Comes 2014, I will have my eyes full on the Red cars, but a little bit of my heart will always look for o menino que veio do Brasil.
I'm sure I won't be the only one (hello, dear Suzie...)
PS My optician insist that my sight is perfect but I can visit him again. Can I send you the bill then?

Of course you're not alone, caro Felipe means a great deal to any real tifoso with an ounce of emozione!

[F2002]

Great talent? Mr. Multi 21? Don't let him (Mark) get near me? Boohoo the tyres don't work for us? All mechanical failures happening on Mark's car?

If you watch Vettel's onboard camera you can notice him missing apexes, going on the throttle sooner than anyone else on the field and making no corrections whatsoever. Any mid-ranked driver would be able to do what he does, which is pretty much just not foul up his car.

I will start believing he's as good as they're trying to sell him whenever I see him get good results out of a crappy car. In the meantime, out of four championships he's got, two of them his car steamrollered the rest of the field alone, and when it wasn't so ridiculously superior won by a margin of 3/4 points to a Ferrari which wasn't at the same level.

Winning in a crappy car eh, I'm sure that you are able to mention plenty of drivers who won the championship in a crappy car recently.

Or, to put it in another way, we can conclude that Alonso and Hamilton are not worth the championships they won, because both have failed in their crappy cars.

[ferrari4life]

Call be a blind rose colored glass looking Ferrari fan but it seems quite a few rule changes and rule breaches have gone in the favor of Red Bull the last few years. This is what turns me off this sport.

I agree that saying that watching Vettel win as boring is hypocritical because of what Ferrari did in the early 2000's. But honestly those years were boring too. I would not watch but just wait to read the news articles instead.

I appreciate a good fight and see a great driver step up and take the win but I don't want to waste my time watching a race where Ferrari doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell to win.

[ManFromMilan]

I appreciate a good fight and see a great driver step up and take the win but I don't want to waste my time watching a race where Ferrari doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell to win.

Exactly.

Senna and Prost still made F1 exciting when they were in the dominant team. But '92 were boring even though you had to admit the absolute dominance and brilliance of Mansell and his team. Patrese was just no where really.

Alonso's battle with Micheal was exciting and worthy in '05 and '06. Different teams but very closely matched over the two seasons.

Now with Vettel and Webber you just do not understand the performance gap and Webber's constant misfortune in that team this year.

Let's hope that we can look forward to good racing in F1 next year, even if it is just the two Ferrari pilots pushing each other in a dominant car.

[Ealdfrith]

Winning in a crappy car eh, I'm sure that you are able to mention plenty of drivers who won the championship in a crappy car recently.

Or, to put it in another way, we can conclude that Alonso and Hamilton are not worth the championships they won, because both have failed in their crappy cars.

If you read again my post you'll notice that I never said anything about winning, I said getting good results.

So hell yes, both Hamilton and Alonso are superb drivers because they have proven themselves in machinery which is not worth of them. Just looking at this year, you will see that Alonso is runner up ahead of the 2nd Red Bull, both Lotuses and the Mercedes, when there is a big fat chance that both teams will end up in front of Ferrari.

And Hamilton has outperformed his teammate with this being his first year at Mercedes, and also made the most of a McLaren that many times was a fluke.

If the German Senna (lol!!) shows us that he can deliver the same results in a car which isn't two seconds faster than any other car in the grid, with a competitive teammate and no rule/tyre changes to favor him, I will acknowledge him as a power in F1.

In the meantime, he's just the guy who was at the right time at the right place... and tells us how difficult is for him to drive at a delta and maintain and... bah.

[Tifoso]

Great talent? Mr. Multi 21? Don't let him (Mark) get near me? Boohoo the tyres don't work for us? All mechanical failures happening on Mark's car?

If you watch Vettel's onboard camera you can notice him missing apexes, going on the throttle sooner than anyone else on the field and making no corrections whatsoever. Any mid-ranked driver would be able to do what he does, which is pretty much just not foul up his car.

I will start believing he's as good as they're trying to sell him whenever I see him get good results out of a crappy car. In the meantime, out of four championships he's got, two of them his car steamrollered the rest of the field alone, and when it wasn't so ridiculously superior won by a margin of 3/4 points to a Ferrari which wasn't at the same level.

True enough, but it is always the car. The number of drivers that could get that extra tenth or three out of the non-dominant car are very few. Schumi and Alonso in recent years, and that's probably it.

[F2002]

If you read again my post you'll notice that I never said anything about winning, I said getting good results.

So hell yes, both Hamilton and Alonso are superb drivers because they have proven themselves in machinery which is not worth of them. Just looking at this year, you will see that Alonso is runner up ahead of the 2nd Red Bull, both Lotuses and the Mercedes, when there is a big fat chance that both teams will end up in front of Ferrari.

And Hamilton has outperformed his teammate with this being his first year at Mercedes, and also made the most of a McLaren that many times was a fluke.

If the German Senna (lol!!) shows us that he can deliver the same results in a car which isn't two seconds faster than any other car in the grid, with a competitive teammate and no rule/tyre changes to favor him, I will acknowledge him as a power in F1.

In the meantime, he's just the guy who was at the right time at the right place... and tells us how difficult is for him to drive at a delta and maintain and... bah.

There is an argument that says that Alonso is in second place because of the decent run he's had on the original batch of Pirelli tyres. When they were changed, he was almost never on the podium.

You can get away with it once or twice if you have the dominant car in hand, but winning four championships in a row is not an everyday feat, that's my opinion anyway.

[Sonic Feathers]

Dear Ealdfrith,

I am a amazed that you are an F1 fan at all, your simplistic attitude totally ignores the complexity of this sport.

Before making such bold statements have you assessed the results properly ?

Were the 2 crashes you mention totaly down to Felipe's driving ?

How many times this year has Felipe's races been ruined by having to run the "Alternative" strategy or just bad strategy calls.

How good would your motivation be if you were told that no matter well your race was going you would have to give your place up to a No1 driver.

You have a short memory with regard to the good races he has had this year despite the above.

THis years car has been a dog with little successful developement achieved through out the year and appears to be very difficult to set up during practice.

Yes Fernando is an exceptional driver and very glad he is in our team, next year we pin our hopes on Kimi lets see what he offers in comparison with Felipe in terms of loyalty and performance. ( I hear the Ice cream machine has been banned for next year )

Take care my friend we are Ferrari fans and I for one will defend to the death any of our team who have given good service to the Marque.

+1
"Blah, blah, blah you say. Hmm try the short version for those that have ADD ...Troll elsewhere, you aren't red, not with that type of unwarranted antagonism to ItalianSpirit & others.
You are sitting on both sides of the Ferrari fence Eidelfrith. Thank God, you were still a lustful thought in your daddys'mind when Mansell, Burger, Alesi, Irvine, Salo, Barichello & Raikonnen were our drivers. You'd have lots of pessimism about them too undoubtedly... & yes Ferrari loyalty gives the right of being on this forum.
I won't be supporting your quest on generating posts responses. TSN isn't a healthy place for a troll.
Ps. those were our mods who you 'pulled a toffee' at . You've negligible respect for anything Ferrari.

[Ealdfrith]

There is an argument that says that Alonso is in second place because of the decent run he's had on the original batch of Pirelli tyres. When they were changed, he was almost never on the podium.

You can get away with it once or twice if you have the dominant car in hand, but winning four championships in a row is not an everyday feat, that's my opinion anyway.

I agree, it is not an everyday feat, but it is something that the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi... and probably Hulkenberg, 2013 Grosjean or Button can achieve. Specially if you give them clear #1 status and all the goodies the car can have (which Webber didn't even smell, but that is another topic).

What I mean is that they're trying to sell Vettel as the ultimate driver when he's probably just a good driver with the ultimate ride.

Can you imagine Schumacher driving the 2012 RB? Would have he won the WDC by 7 points only? Or 4 in 2010?

Regarding the Pirelligate, well, it was highly unfair to get back to 2012 specs and a big blow to the teams that had done their homework (see Force India and Sauber), but then again Lotus has been able to react and Ferrari hasn't.

[pluto]

Vettel is still being matched in qualifying by his 37 year old retiring team mate, and this is supposed to be impressive? He is lucky he is being protected with weak team mates, and next year they hired a deliberate number 2 for him, to make sure he is not challenged too much. And this is supposed to be a great driver? LOL

[budaman]

Here are a couple of pics each of Fernando & Felipe from this weekend.

[F2002]

Vettel is still being matched in qualifying by his 37 year old retiring team mate, and this is supposed to be impressive? He is lucky he is being protected with weak team mates, and next year they hired a deliberate number 2 for him, to make sure he is not challenged too much. And this is supposed to be a great driver? LOL

As was Schumi in the golden days.

[F2002]

...Lotus has been able to react and Ferrari hasn't.

+10000 to that.

On many occasions, Ferrari's problem has been in being behind other teams in the thought and adaptation process, it has gone from being a leader to being a follower. Tyres, double-deck diffusers, exhaust blowing, engine mapping, F-duct, you can continue naming many innovative solutions from recent times which others, and not Ferrari, have pioneered.

[Greig]

Vettel is still being matched in qualifying by his 37 year old retiring team mate, and this is supposed to be impressive? He is lucky he is being protected with weak team mates, and next year they hired a deliberate number 2 for him, to make sure he is not challenged too much. And this is supposed to be a great driver? LOL

And when Massa beats Alonso in qual what does that say? oh wait....

[pluto]

And when Massa beats Alonso in qual what does that say? oh wait....

Massa is the oldest driver on the grid?

[pluto]

As was Schumi in the golden days.

Ferrari hired the best drivers available. They did not reject the likes of an alonso, kimi, Lewis.

[Ealdfrith]

Ferrari hired the best drivers available. They did not reject the likes of an alonso, kimi, Lewis.

+1

If Vettel had really wanted to prove himself as one of the greatest, he should have told his team to bring a real racer as a teammate and not another Aussie willing to play second fiddle.

Can you imagine Hulkenberg in the 2nd RB?

[Greig]

+1

If Vettel had really wanted to prove himself as one of the greatest, he should have told his team to bring a real racer as a teammate and not another Aussie willing to play second fiddle.

So you could say the same about MS, Lewis and Alonso then...

[Greig]

Ferrari hired the best drivers available. They did not reject the likes of an alonso, kimi, Lewis.

LOL Eddie and Rubens were the best drivers on the grid? Off course haha.

[Greig]

Massa is the oldest driver on the grid?

If you can't count then yes.

[Meiga]

There is an argument that says that Alonso is in second place because of the decent run he's had on the original batch of Pirelli tyres. When they were changed, he was almost never on the podium.

You can get away with it once or twice if you have the dominant car in hand, but winning four championships in a row is not an everyday feat, that's my opinion anyway.

That is not exactly correct; Alonso had four podiums up to Great Britain, and three afterwards. It is true, however, that without the incidents in Malaysia and Bahrein one could have expected him to be on the podium in those races too.

After Great Britain Alonso had 111 points with an average of 13.8 points per race; since then, he has scored a further 116 in 10 races - 11.6 average. His results have not dropped that dramatically, if you think about it. The crucical difference here is that Vettel scored 132 points up to Great Britain, with an average of 16.5, and a further 240 in the next 10 races, with an astonishing average of 24 points per race. And that is what Pirelli has done not for Ferrari, but for Red Bull, as per mr Newey's words:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24717889
"Going back to 2012 tyres for sure helped us," Red Bull designer Adrian Newey said.
Our car generally gets quite a bit of its benefit in the high-speed corners and the '13 tyres were much more load-sensitive.
It was much easier to damage them if you put too much load into them, so we couldn't really use that high-speed benefit on the '13 tyres."

[Ealdfrith]

So you could say the same about MS, Lewis and Alonso then...

To put Schumacher and Vettel not just in the same sentence, but even in the same line of thought... should be punishable by death!!

No, seriously, when Michael landed in Ferrari the team was a mess and it took some time for him to get the things done the way he wanted. He was able to build the confidence back and then the titles came.

With that effort going on I think he deserved the clear #1 role. Vettel hasn't developed a thing and treats Mark with a contempt I've never seen Michael use with Rubens or Massa.

[Greig]

Ferrari was not such a mess when MS arrived, that's why he arrived as he could see they had it in place to get to the top, Jean Todt had done the vast majority of the work. I am not sure how you can say MS never treated Rubens with contempt when he used to take his chassis off him if Rubens went quicker? Nevermind that Rubens left due to MS ignoring the understanding that they hold station after the final stops (MS dived past him on the last lap at Monaco) MS was certainly no saint and full off goodwill towards his team mates.

You can put Vettel down all day long TBH, but in doing so most of it can be applied to other drivers.

[WS6TransAm01]

Here are a couple of pics each of Fernando & Felipe from this weekend.

great pics!

I was very upset not to have gone again this year. I got some awesome pics from the T11W grandstand last year

[DIEK]

Great fight Alo vs Hulkemberg!