2014 engines sound great

[bluesilhouettes]

Comment: AUTOSPORT's verdict on 2014 Formula 1 engines


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105081

Mercedes-Benz has unveiled the first images of the 2014 Formula 1 power unit that it believes will put the 'motor back in motorsport'.

As dyno testing of its new V6 1.6-litre turbo charged unit continues at its Brixworth facility, Mercedes says early indications from its work are pointing towards an exciting era for grand prix racing once the 2014 rules come into force.

Andy Cowell, managing director of Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines, dismissed fears that the new power units would not deliver as exciting a sound as the current V8 engines, and predicted thrills for fans and challenges for drivers.

"The engines are going to be loud, but I think sweet sounding," he said on Friday. "The frequency will be higher and, with the turbocharger running at 125,000rpm, they will be loud. When you are stood next to it on the dyno it is not quiet and you need ear defenders.

"There will be a new quality to the racing too. It will edge towards a thinking drivers' formula to get the most from the car and the available fuel energy.

"The engines will also deliver much more torque - especially on the exit of the corners. Cars with more power than grip coming out of the corners - that is something that we all enjoy.

"They will also put F1 back at the cutting edge of new technology - which is what the fans want."

Red Bull chief technical officer Adrian Newey suggested last year that the power units would become the critical factor in deciding the outcome of the 2014 championship.

Cowell believed it was too early to be specific about the impact the engines will have, but was confident that the importance of the engine manufacturer would be greater than it was now, a move he welcomed.

"We are putting the motor back in motorsport, but to what extent we will only know in 2014," he said. "It will definitely have more of an influence."

The new power units will produce the same 750hp figure of the current engines but a larger percentage of that will come from Energy Recovery Systems.

The current KERS currently produces 80hp for 6.7 seconds per lap, while the new ERS will deliver 161 hp for 33.3 seconds per lap.

Cowell said: "Today it is difficult to be quick without KERS - for 2014 it will be impossible to go racing without ERS."

[andone89]

Cant wait for Ferrari's engine.

[bluesilhouettes]

If Ferrari fail in this engine war. There's nothing to plead for. Engine war is what Ferrari want, all the time.
So I think they must have been prepare it well.

[FerrariF60]

If Ferrari fail in this engine war. There's nothing to plead for. Engine war is what Ferrari want, all the time.
So I think they must have been prepare it well.

...hence the saying of good old ENZO himself; aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines...so i'm most certainly sure Ferrari will DO everything they can to come out on top come 2014....

Forza Ferrari

[Corey]

...hence the saying of good old ENZO himself; aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines...so i'm most certainly sure Ferrari will DO everything they can to come out on top come 2014....

Forza Ferrari

Except that Enzo hasn't been around anymore for quite some time, we can just hope for what he left behind is still remembered by Maranello

[Hornet]

LOL, sounds like a whole lot of PR talk.

Sure if you compare to road cars, the engine would sound great. But its going to pale in comparison to yesteryear's V10 or even the current V8. Not only they are reducing the number of cylinders, they are capping the RPM. There's no way that V6 can mechanically generate any sound comparable to V8 or V10.

[Rob]

If Ferrari fail in this engine war. There's nothing to plead for. Engine war is what Ferrari want, all the time.
So I think they must have been prepare it well.

Its not an engine war, as such. Its just taking bit of aero away form the car and making the engine and drivetrains the "main" factor. I think, the teams can develope the engines for the first year as all new, but the year after, i think (if i remember right) there will be a freeze the year after.

[bluesilhouettes]

If someone hasn't done good job on 2014 engine then years after ...
It could happen to anyone. Freezing the development on engine is ?. Spending money on running simulator, wind tunnel all day is ? Spending money on something like aerodynamics that cant apply on road car is ?.
The problem is FIA's awareness and approach method to cost cutting.
It's not how they spend their money but how much they spend.

[Brakefade]

Its not an engine war, as such. Its just taking bit of aero away form the car and making the engine and drivetrains the "main" factor. I think, the teams can develope the engines for the first year as all new, but the year after, i think (if i remember right) there will be a freeze the year after.

2014 has to be our year. And it's a great opportunity to be on top for a long time afterwards. However, if it's clear that Ferrari have the best engine, I expect the RB Whambulance brigade to show up on cue.

At least I hope this pushes them out of F1 for good, and makes it a Ferrari vs Merc vs Mclaren competition.

[Tifoso]

Wait. If the engine audio will not be available "for a while", then how do we know that they sound great?

[Rob]

If someone hasn't done good job on 2014 engine then years after ...
It could happen to anyone. Freezing the development on engine is ?. Spending money on running simulator, wind tunnel all day is ? Spending money on something like aerodynamics that cant apply on road car is ?.
The problem is FIA's awareness and approach method to cost cutting.
It's not how they spend their money but how much they spend.

Thats why the first year teams can develope the engines and drivetrains as all new and sort out the little gremlins, then after that freeze. Its to reduce costs. The units going to cost enough for smaller teams anyway. Cost cutting, as much as we all moan about it, its a way to save our beloved sport and small teams. Could say thats all the teams below us, RBR and Mclaren. Maybe Merc, but see in few years (as in doing a Toyota, big money, big name drivers and no wins then pull the plug on the programme due to costs)

[wisepie]

We always seem to have done extremely well on the engine front and as long as they make a noise and don't ever go electric, I'll be happy!

[bluesilhouettes]

Engine only is not enough, today the powertrain is much more complicated and aero play bigger role. I dont think Ferrari is going to lead in these fields (both engine and aero) too.
Let see how important ERS is in 2014:
33.3 s x 161 Hp = 10 x 80 Hp * 6.7s

Ten times of currently KERS energy.

take a look on Mercedes car:

http://hcm.24h.com.vn/the-thao/f1-20...01a513159.html



Look like they're trying to copy Ferrari front suspension, RBR rear suspension and exhaust layout.

How confident Ferrari is now ???

[Hornet]

I don't think its reasonable to expect Ferrari to suddenly have an advantage with the new engine. Its restricted. Without restriction? Yes, maybe Ferrari can make one that runs at higher RPM or have some form of performance advantage without sacrificing the reliability. But no, many of the performance metrics of this new engine are restricted. We're bordering on handing over a mold to every team and they have to just pour their clay into it.

[Rob]

Engine only is not enough, today the powertrain is much more complicated and aero play bigger role. I dont think Ferrari is going to lead in these fields (both engine and aero) too.
Let see how important ERS is in 2014:
33.3 s x 161 Hp = 10 x 80 Hp * 6.7s

Ten times of currently KERS energy.

take a look on Mercedes car:

http://hcm.24h.com.vn/the-thao/f1-20...01a513159.html



Look like they're trying to copy Ferrari front suspension, RBR rear suspension and exhaust layout.

How confident Ferrari is now ???

Very confident. Its only "leaked" info. End of day, RBRs exhaust layout is, was better than all other teams, as the air had better (more) surface to stay attached and get to the diffuser better. Would not be surprised if we run something very similiar aswell Or teams find better solution and have their own ideas. Aero isnt going to be as bigger factor its has been for past 3 years in 2014. We had the most reliable engines and KERS units last year. We will be strong 2014. Not question.

[bluesilhouettes]

Very confident. Its only "leaked" info. End of day, RBRs exhaust layout is, was better than all other teams, as the air had better (more) surface to stay attached and get to the diffuser better. Would not be surprised if we run something very similiar aswell Or teams find better solution and have their own ideas. Aero isnt going to be as bigger factor its has been for past 3 years in 2014. We had the most reliable engines and KERS units last year. We will be strong 2014. Not question.

We dont know if new engine brings Ferrari any advantage but the interior aerodynamic design and layout of all components will be more important.

[Giambattista]

We dont know if new engine brings Ferrari any advantage but the interior aerodynamic design and layout of all components will be more important.

Definitely, we have an advantage as we can build the entire car with new engine and other components perfectly matched, the constructions of other teams like McLaren or RBR have to rely on the engines they don't build themselves and sometimes it doesn't work as the problems of aero package may occur.

[FranksterGM]

They had to ruin the formula with small capacity turbo's
Give us capacity. V12's. Even a pushrod class if they want a low cost class.

[bluesilhouettes]

Think of someday MC use Ferrari engine

[SS454]

The picture of the Mercedes is photoshopped. That or Nico is such a perfect driver he has positioned his car in the identical place while somehow controlling the sun to stay put, keeping the shadows identical as well.

[Prancing Bear]

The picture of the Mercedes is photoshopped. That or Nico is such a perfect driver he has positioned his car in the identical place while somehow controlling the sun to stay put, keeping the shadows identical as well.

Good call.

[bluesilhouettes]

Realized that !

[fratelliferrari]

Good photoshopping LOL! No serious very stupid by myself that I didn't see that earlier

[Bobsan]

Hi this is my first post here. But i'm really intreseted are there any restrictions on the boost pressure of the new engines.I understand that there is a restriction ot fuel pressure(500Mpa) for the direct injection.But i was not able to find information about the boost pressure of the turbo.Thanks in advance.

[Massimo]

Hi this is my first post here. But i'm really intreseted are there any restrictions on the boost pressure of the new engines.I understand that there is a restriction ot fuel pressure(500Mpa) for the direct injection.But i was not able to find information about the boost pressure of the turbo.Thanks in advance.

Welcome Bobsan!
I'm not very technical, but a little about engines i do understand, Rob White from RenaultSport F1 wrote an interesting article about the new engines (will try to find it for you), also mentioning the boost pressure, this is what i remember:

"the new engines will be allowed to run up to 15000 rpm. but will probably run 12000 rpm. So they will get the power more from boosting than from rpm's, and to avoid frictional losses at high rpm's.
They expect 1.5 Bar boost pressure for a total intake pressure of 2.5 Bar.
I think there is no limit to the boost pressure and the amount of air they are able to get in to the engine, the limitation is probably by fuel supply.

[Bobsan]

1.5 bar seems prety low to me, back in the 80's they where running 5-6bar during the race and 7-7.5bar during qualifying.

[Massimo]

1.5 bar seems prety low to me, back in the 80's they where running 5-6bar during the race and 7-7.5bar during qualifying.

But they were different engines in the 80's right? The 80's engine was air restricted and not blown, as far as i know that's how they worked back then, air restriction and unlimited fuel supply.
The 2014 engines are the other way arround, air supply is free, the limitation comes from fuel supply.

Found the article for you, it's 4 pages, but pretty interesting, White gives a lot of information. http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue...&prev=sub&p=46

[Bobsan]

Thank's this is a very good article.It shed some light on my understanding about the new engines.

[khizerk]

If Ferrari fail in this engine war. There's nothing to plead for. Engine war is what Ferrari want, all the time.
So I think they must have been prepare it well.

What worries me is, in recent times as far as road car technology goes, Ferrari has been concentrating on naturally aspirated engines while Merc has been producing turbo charged cars. This could give them an edge.

[type056]

James Allen:
“all the signs are that the Mercedes will be the dominant new generation engine in 2014”

I dont know what signs he saying about?anybody know?i am worried...

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/0...tegy-for-2013/