Red Bull are probably cheating thread

[Hermann]

I have no idea about that seal thing, what is it for or if its new.
Is it standard for FIA to do that, or something new?

If its something new, it may indicate that the FIA may suspect something is going on

I tend to think they know exactly whats going on.

[Greig]

Was this device on the car last year?

Red Bull seem riddled with cheating to me.

[Hermann]

Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner says the FIA's clarification that any system altering the suspension set-up of a car during parc ferme conditions is illegal "has no impact" on its RB6.

The team has been suspected by its rivals of being able to change the ride height of its car between qualifying and the race, but the FIA has declared the RB6 perfectly legal and on Sunday faxed all the F1 teams to confirm that anyone who implements such a system will be contravening the regulations.

This was on autosport plus in April 2010.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

They've been doing this for a long time, there's no other way to explain their qualifying dominance over the last two years.
As for those seals, Sky's cameras were clearly focusing on them at one point, implying that the FIA have their eyes on RB now in case they try anything snidy again. We'll see how they fair in the race tomorrow.

[Hermann]

This italian article says a FIA member leaked the story.

http://www.blogf1.it/2012/07/27/red-...oppia-un-caso/

Horner practically admitted they had such a system indeed, but of course they didn't use it. They are just laughing into our faces, because this is too big- FIA can hardly admit they allowed RB to race- and win titles- with something that clearly illegal.

It says RBR engineer got caught changing the ride height while they pretended to clean the suspension. Charlie Whiting and Jo Bauer were informed but they only told them to put the suspension setting back.

The trick to it was a special designed very small key that could be hidden between the fingers.

So Horner lied - they got caught changing it - thats the only reason the FIA even found out.

[Greig]

http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012...fia-again.html

[Hornet]

Man, did they consult a magician to teach them how to perform sleight of hand.

The distance RB go just to break the rules.

[Hermann]

Well this is all still a lot of speculation. The only things confirmed so far (and by Horner himself): they indeed have a system you could in theory operate manually and in theory use between qualy and race.

Of course they never used that system in any other way than according to the rules.

"Basically we designed a very complicated system so that we can adjust it by hand, but we never use it. Never. Really. Are you allowed in the pit lane at all Ted? It's a non issue. Trust me. Go away Ted. It's fine, our car is perfectly legal apart form all the illegal bits, but it's fine, we don't use them anyway, because FIA prefers if we don't."

[Greig]

They are cheats, when BAR was found cheating they got a 2 race ban, FIA is weak now, bring back Max.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

What is Todt doing? wake up!

[Dino]

What is Todt doing? wake up!

Charlie Whiting and Jo Bauer will be getting a phone call from Luca DM very soon about all this.
In my opinion all non Renault engined teams should protest about this.
It's bringing F1 to shame.

[Rob]

They are cheats, when BAR was found cheating they got a 2 race ban, FIA is weak now, bring back Max.

This has been going on for to long. Its a joke. Any other team would be banned or have WCC points deducted.

[FrankAlfa]

This is a serious, continuous situation with this Red Bull Team. This Drink Company entered this sport to make money and has not "Racing History" like the Old Name Teams in the sport. They have looked at Formula One with an underhanded, disrespectful distain for the Sport and the other Teams. It is one thing to try to bend the Rules and quite another to Cheat when no one is looking or checking. Yes, we all understand that this Ride Height adjustment from Qualifying to Race Day has been going on for many years now and they have dilerately chose to knowingly "Break the Rules" and "Seek an Unfair Advantage" be sidestepping the rules! Vettel has won many races because of the underhanded means and methods used by Adrian Newey and his team of Engineers. I question his so called "Genius"! Anyone can win if permitted to Cheat!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[flam147]

This is a serious, continuous situation with this Red Bull Team. This Drink Company entered this sport to make money and has not "Racing History" like the Old Name Teams in the sport. They have looked at Formula One with an underhanded, disrespectful distain for the Sport and the other Teams. It is one thing to try to bend the Rules and quite another to Cheat when no one is looking or checking. Yes, we all understand that this Ride Height adjustment from Qualifying to Race Day has been going on for many years now and they have dilerately chose to knowingly "Break the Rules" and "Seek an Unfair Advantage" be sidestepping the rules! Vettel has won many races because of the underhanded means and methods used by Adrian Newey and his team of Engineers. I question his so called "Genius"! Anyone can win if permitted to Cheat!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

yes but he was not good enough to beat our run with Schu.

[Hermann]

Now Charlie added his 5 cents as well, saying that 'the rumors about such a switch are far- fetched".
Dear Charlie: as Horner admitted there was a hand operated device to change the RB suspension. Maybe those two should meet over a cup of coffee and get their stories straight

[ferrari4life]

i read an explanation for this as the FIA noticed the device but there was not proof that they actully used it to change during parc ferme conditions. They explained it as a way to change the car balance during the race which is legal.

[Greig]

i read an explanation for this as the FIA noticed the device but there was not proof that they actully used it to change during parc ferme conditions. They explained it as a way to change the car balance during the race which is legal.

and would make their pitstops very slow

[bonzo]

A question to FIA: how many times and how many seasons have RB used this device? Doing it in parc ferme is just the stupidity of a mechanic. For sure they have done it on track before the formation lap. Who could see it there?

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Looks like Charlie Whiting is hiding something, he's always had a soft spot for the Bulls. I say we summon Charlie to the stewards

[Alonsomaniac]

Looks like Charlie Whiting is hiding something, he's always had a soft spot for the Bulls. I say we summon Charlie to the stewards

Yes, let's turn it into an anti-Ferrari conspiracy.....what a load of crap.
RB has tried some things that wre not literally forbidden by the rules although everybody, including them, knew very well how the rules were meant to be interpretated.
They walked on the edge, some people noticed and the rules were made clearer.
End of story, let's race.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Yes, let's turn it into an anti-Ferrari conspiracy.....what a load of crap.
RB has tried some things that wre not literally forbidden by the rules although everybody, including them, knew very well how the rules were meant to be interpretated.
They walked on the edge, some people noticed and the rules were made clearer.
End of story, let's race.

Anti-Ferrari? Stop being so short sighted. When i say that i speak for all the teams, fact is if any other team was found to be doing what RBR were doing they would have been DQ. Teams have done far less and been DQ too.
And this isn't about walking on the edge anymore, this is outright cheating.

[Brakefade]

IDK why other teams don't protest. PROTEST!!! Sheeesh...

[FrankAlfa]

yes but he was not good enough to beat our run with Schu.

Was Ferrari ever caught cheating like Red Bull has been doing for years now??? Over and over, Red Bull is "Breaking" the Rules and they are allowed to get away with it!

No, this issue is not about Ferrari doing anything wrong, past or present!

Your comments regarding Ferrari, in the Schumacher years, is not accurate and never proven. You sir are "trolling".

Please return to your Red Bull or McLaren site from which you came.

Red Bull's continued actions are testimony to their poor ethical posture. I am glad this is coming to a head and lets hope that the situation finally rights itself.

ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Greig]

Yes, let's turn it into an anti-Ferrari conspiracy.....what a load of crap.
RB has tried some things that wre not literally forbidden by the rules although everybody, including them, knew very well how the rules were meant to be interpretated.
They walked on the edge, some people noticed and the rules were made clearer.
End of story, let's race.

A manual way to change the suspension by hand is clearly against the rules (the rules state you must need to use tools), and to design a system that can be adjusted by hand is a clear and direct attempt to cheat the sport. Now if it is true the FIA actually caught them cheating in Canada, but only told them to change it back is really really worrying.

[flam147]

Was Ferrari ever caught cheating like Red Bull has been doing for years now??? Over and over, Red Bull is "Breaking" the Rules and they are allowed to get away with it!

No, this issue is not about Ferrari doing anything wrong, past or present!

Your comments regarding Ferrari, in the Schumacher years, is not accurate and never proven. You sir are "trolling".

Please return to your Red Bull or McLaren site from which you came.

Red Bull's continued actions are testimony to their poor ethical posture. I am glad this is coming to a head and lets hope that the situation finally rights itself.

ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

where did i say cheating ? i was pointing out he could not out design us during our domiment years, i Never support a driver unless is Ferrari , done that for 40 years now (since i first started watching aged 5) , i hate RED bull and i hate McLaren even more. just because i havent been well enough to come on here for a little while . Schumi has gone from my fav driver to number 3 because Ferrari drivers always come first. i have not missed a race in 40 years.
sorry perhaps the "but" in the comment made it sound like i was not agreeing with you

[flam147]

Red bull gives you cheats , oops sorry Wings

hence my dig at their slogan

[REDARMYSOJA]

Horner admitted there was a hand operated device to change the RB suspension.

He did? Do you have a link?

[flam147]

Notice both Bulls had to 3 stop, Does anybody beleave Seb was trying to get Button , or maybe his tyres could not last?

[Hermann]

He did? Do you have a link?

"It was something that could either be changed by hand or by tool, but the FIA said they preferred it was a tool that was used," Horner told AUTOSPORT.

"We never changed the ride height in parc ferme or anything like that. It really is a non-issue."

When asked why, if the regulations state that tools must be used, the team had a system that allowed settings to be changed manually, Horner said: "There are a lot of parts that are changed manually on the car, but a tool is used. The suspension has never been changed in parc ferme. Never."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101572

[REDARMYSOJA]

"It was something that could either be changed by hand or by tool, but the FIA said they preferred it was a tool that was used," Horner told AUTOSPORT.

"We never changed the ride height in parc ferme or anything like that. It really is a non-issue."

When asked why, if the regulations state that tools must be used, the team had a system that allowed settings to be changed manually, Horner said: "There are a lot of parts that are changed manually on the car, but a tool is used. The suspension has never been changed in parc ferme. Never."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101572

Well, there it is then. Thanks, I hadn't seen that.