Red Bull are probably cheating thread

[Tifoso]

The official F1 site has been updated to show Vettel at 110 pts. FYI

[ferrari4life]

its ironic that if this new engine mapping was only used in Germany and then suddenly Vettel is faster than Webber. I wonder if this has a connection with the story from a few years ago about how without the automatic tom-foolerly Vettel is nothing compared to Webber who has better control of this blown exhaust manually vs using the chip.

[Tifoso]

its ironic that if this new engine mapping was only used in Germany and then suddenly Vettel is faster than Webber. I wonder if this has a connection with the story from a few years ago about how without the automatic tom-foolerly Vettel is nothing compared to Webber who has better control of this blown exhaust manually vs using the chip.

You could very well be onto something there. Maybe RB realizes it, too (witness Mark's new contract)

[Red passion]

its ironic that if this new engine mapping was only used in Germany and then suddenly Vettel is faster than Webber. I wonder if this has a connection with the story from a few years ago about how without the automatic tom-foolerly Vettel is nothing compared to Webber who has better control of this blown exhaust manually vs using the chip.

was surprised at how poor MW was yesterday, qualified 3rd, penalty started and finished 8th, not exactly a drive from a WDC contender i thought he would finish 3rd/4th at least.

[ferrari4life]

was surprised at how poor MW was yesterday, qualified 3rd, penalty started and finished 8th, not exactly a drive from a WDC contender i thought he would finish 3rd/4th at least.

it was like he had no speed to pass other cars he came up on

[Tifoso]

it was like he had no speed to pass other cars he came up on

Wonder if he had "traditional" engine mapping??

[Red passion]

Wonder if he had "traditional" engine mapping??

You should know the answer to that, only VETTEL gets the good stuff

[Tifoso]

You should know the answer to that, only VETTEL gets the good stuff

What was I thinking?

[Greig]

Both cars had the same map said the FIA document

[ferrari4life]

Both cars had the same map said the FIA document

its probably true but if i remember correctly back in 2010? when they switched to the computerized mapping deal all of a sudden Vet started dropping Web in the distance.

[Tifoso]

Both cars had the same map said the FIA document

Thanks for the clarification mate

[Dino]

Ah, but you can't know if it wasn't the mapping that made Vettel as competitive as he was. In other words, it certainly made his car faster, so it is possible that he shouldn't have been #2/3 in the first place.

100% !!!!!!!!!!!
Red Bull using this mapping to reduce Torque in the Midrange not only acts as a sort of Traction Control.
It also is much kinder to the rear tyres.
Next race is all about the rear tyres!!
May i remind you that accelerating out of the hairpin with Button's Merc engined Mclaren, Vettel's Renault just criused by and opened a gap up the straight immediately........

[Tifoso]

100% !!!!!!!!!!!
Red Bull using this mapping to reduce Torque in the Midrange not only acts as a sort of Traction Control.
It also is much kinder to the rear tyres.
Next race is all about the rear tyres!!
May i remind you that accelerating out of the hairpin with Button's Merc engined Mclaren, Vettel's Renault just criused by and opened a gap up the straight immediately........

Button was suffering at that point, to be fair. OTOH, it looked like Button was standing still.

[Dino]

Button was suffering at that point, to be fair. OTOH, it looked like Button was standing still.

Suffering with what?? REAR TYRES !!
Exactly my point.Vettel's tyres where much better than Button's and Alonso's.
One of the biggest mapping advantages is just that,being kinder to the rear tyres.

[Tifoso]

Suffering with what?? REAR TYRES !!
Exactly my point.Vettel's tyres where much better than Button's and Alonso's.
One of the biggest mapping advantages is just that,being kinder to the rear tyres.

Point taken

[Grillo]

If it works as a TC aid there's no better place to hurt them than Hungaroring, if the FIA declares it illegal from now on. If not i wonder if it's replicable for the F2012 engine and ECU.

[Hornet]

Blown diffuser alters the characteristic of the car. IMO, the car's handling with blown diffuser probably suits Vettel more than it does for Webber.

Vettel probably prefer the way the car handles with blown diffuser, where perhaps the rear end has better grip and is more consistent, and it explains why Red Bull is bending every rule there is just to make the blown diffuser concept work again.

[sav_pap]

It's so annoying.
Every time they cheat we have to wait for a crarification.
Hours and hours of discussions and backstage because of the "Super Genius - FOOL" Mr. Newey.
I wonder what actions would be taken if Caterham or Marussia would do this.

[anupa2k]

Redbull engine map helps them to get traction control. And TC in F1 is already banned..so why FIA needs discussion on this front...straight away they should ask Redbull to roll back their engine maps to Silverstone one..And if they are still waiting for clarifications or any rule change then till the rules are not clearly mentioned Redbull should be asked to run their car with older engine mapping. What is they run their car with new engine mapping and win the Hungary gp and then FIA decide to ban their mapping. Then this is really not good for other teams as Redbull are taking advantage. Why in the hell they always play with rules which are ban already...Either we need a rule change before hungary or redbull should run with older engine mapping until the rules are not clear...

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

It is unlikely to be banned before this Grand Prix weekend and so Red Bull will probably race it again. The Technical Working Group meeting was yesterday and lead pundits claim that nothing had been agreed on and finalized. Most likely it appears that a clarification will be made after or during the break.

[ferrari1.8t]

It is unlikely to be banned before this Grand Prix weekend and so Red Bull will probably race it again. The Technical Working Group meeting was yesterday and lead pundits claim that nothing had been agreed on and finalized. Most likely it appears that a clarification will be made after or during the break.

X2. While it would be nice to think the FIA would wake up and do the right thing, it's just wishfull thinking. Also, I would imagine RB would use its same bs excuse from last year after silverstone that they require mapping for cooling issues. What a joke...

[Liscia]

Which rival team complained about this or did the FIA just pick up on it? From photographers as one
article says?

[Jacquesvw]

Which rival team complained about this or did the FIA just pick up on it? From photographers as one
article says?

The FIA studied the engine telemetry, so discovered it themselves. No camera can take a photo of engine torque output...

[Greig]

Ted said McLaren were the ones who went to the FIA.

[sav_pap]

Red Bull's cars have been sent to the stewards after the FIA's technical delegate found an issue with its torque map in Hockenheim.

Jo Bauer sent an FIA communications to all of the teams on Sunday morning which read: 'Having examined the engine base torque map of car number 01 and 02 it became apparent that the maximum torque output of both engines is significantly less in the mid rpm range than previously seen for these engines at other Events.

'In my opinion this is therefore in breach of Article 5.5.3 of the 2012 Formula One Technical Regulations as the engines are able to deliver more torque at a given engine speed in the mid rpm range.

'Furthermore this new torque map will artificially alter the aerodynamic characteristics of both cars which is also in contravention of TD 036-11.

'I am referring this matter to the stewards for their consideration.'

No decision has yet been taken by the stewards over the legality of the cars.

When asked by Sky Sports about the situation on his way to the stewards' office, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said: "There's nothing really to say at the moment. The stewards will talk and have a chat about it. "

Asked what he made of Bauer's assessment that the system does not fit within the regulations, Horner added: "We've presented [to the stewards] why we believe it absolutely does."

http://en.espnf1.com/germany/motorsp...ory/84867.html

[Greig]

Why are you posting Sunday's news?

[anupa2k]

It is unlikely to be banned before this Grand Prix weekend and so Red Bull will probably race it again. The Technical Working Group meeting was yesterday and lead pundits claim that nothing had been agreed on and finalized. Most likely it appears that a clarification will be made after or during the break.

Ok so if the rules are not clear then Redbull should not be allowed to race with Germany engine mapping as it helps them to have traction control which leads to less wheel spin...
Or other teams also re-configure their engine mappings to take an advantage....

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Ok so if the rules are not clear then Redbull should not be allowed to race with Germany engine mapping as it helps them to have traction control which leads to less wheel spin...
Or other teams also re-configure their engine mappings to take an advantage....

If no clarification has been made before this grand prix weekend, all teams are clear to change engine maps to those used by Red Bull in the last race. Whats helps is that it's not such a difficult task to do, given the advancement in computing technologies of the last few years in F1.

What Red Bull are doing here is the equivalent of saying: a = b and b = c and because the rules don't explicitly state that a is also = to c, one would have to assume that given the aforementioned, Red Bull have decided to assume otherwise and used the fact that it isn't explicitly stated in the rules in their favour.

[anupa2k]

If no clarification has been made before this grand prix weekend, all teams are clear to change engine maps to those used by Red Bull in the last race. Whats helps is that it's not such a difficult task to do, given the advancement in computing technologies of the last few years in F1.

What Red Bull are doing here is the equivalent of saying: a = b and b = c and because the rules don't explicitly state that a is also = to c, one would have to assume that given the aforementioned, Red Bull have decided to assume otherwise and used the fact that it isn't explicitly stated in the rules in their favour.

Thanks for the clarification mate...

[sav_pap]

If no clarification has been made before this grand prix weekend, all teams are clear to change engine maps to those used by Red Bull in the last race. Whats helps is that it's not such a difficult task to do, given the advancement in computing technologies of the last few years in F1.

What Red Bull are doing here is the equivalent of saying: a = b and b = c and because the rules don't explicitly state that a is also = to c, one would have to assume that given the aforementioned, Red Bull have decided to assume otherwise and used the fact that it isn't explicitly stated in the rules in their favour.

Kobayashi = Terminator ---- Terminator = Schwarzenegger => Kobayashi = Schwarzenegger