Australian Grand Prix 2012 - Albert Park - Race 1

[anupa2k]

Ferrari needs Pat symonds from technical side and Flavio briatore....

[Rosso Corsa]

Well, that was a welcome bunch of points from what could have been very slim pickings indeed. For Fernando at least. Gutted to see Massa have such a bad season opener.

I've said it before, but the root of our problem has to be the technology we're using to design cars and upgrades. Or more specifically, the data that's in the technology is wrong, whether that's the wind tunnel or CFD or whatever. Bad data in, bad data out. If anyone thinks otherwise, then you're implying that the car was designed to have the lack of speed and traction that our car is currently displaying. That just doesn't make sense.

I'm really concerned about this. We designed the F150 using bad data, and now it seems we've done the same with the F2012. That's over 1 year that this has been an issue. And if we truly are looking at bad data, then how do we fix the issues using the same? I know the car had sensors all over it in winter testing, but were they sensors that were collecting data to calibrate our tech at the factory, or what? I don't want to sound negative, and I'm sure there's a lot more to this than I can comprehend, but it does make me nervous that we'll struggle to make significant gains.

[kurski]

Ferrari needs Pat symonds from technical side and Flavio briatore....

I agree, Briatore / Symonds would be a good duo, and they feel very Fernando Alonso. I hope that Briatore/Symonds join next year Ferrari team :)

[Quasar]

I'm sorry but i disagree with those who say "bad speed & downforce = windtunnel and CFD data are bad". Well, i think it's not that simple. The data might be OK, but even if the data is OK, the car is so new, that you need time to understand it properly. Just look at Redbull, they don't usually have problems with windtunnel data, but they have tried different solutions this season in the exhaust area. The windtunnel and CFD data can't predict everything, and it is normal to have small discrepancies. Also, with the combination of new parts, everything becomes more complex.

The windtunnel and CFD data gives you the base and direction to develop the car. Every new "radical" car needs time to perfect, even when the Data is OK. But we should do it ASAP if we want to win the WDC and WCC. The problem is other teams (McLaren), without a radical change from last year car's, have already achieved good speed & downforce.

[F1NAC]

why can't you do special thread for practice , quali , and race like last year ? To many posts here , is difficult to read all of them .

[ClaudiuCojo]

To me it looks like we have the same strong points & weaknesses as last year:

Weaknesses:

1) Slow in qualy.
2) Slow with hard tires.
3) Slow as the race progresses and the car becomes lighter.

Strong point:

Fast on full tank.

In addition we seem to have lost our advantage from last year(being kinder on the tires).

Not much has changed seems like 2011 all over again, we are not that far behind as last year(1s vs 1.5s) but now there are more teams in between us the fastest car.

[Rosso Corsa]

I'm sorry but i disagree with those who say "bad speed & downforce = windtunnel and CFD data are bad". Well, i think it's not that simple. The data might be OK, but even if the data is OK, the car is so new, that you need time to understand it properly. Just look at Redbull, they don't usually have problems with windtunnel data, but they have tried different solutions this season in the exhaust area. The windtunnel and CFD data can't predict everything, and it is normal to have small discrepancies. Also, with the combination of new parts, everything becomes more complex.

The windtunnel and CFD data gives you the base and direction to develop the car. Every new "radical" car needs time to perfect, even when the Data is OK. But we should do it ASAP if we want to win the WDC and WCC. The problem is other teams (McLaren), without a radical change from last year car's, have already achieved good speed & downforce.

Good points well made. I can see exhaust placement being particularly difficult to simulate, but... Our baseline balance still looks unstable. With EBD gone, you'd think the exhaust placement could only "enhance" performance, rather than performance of the other components being pivotal on the exhaust. The downforce generating components (wings, floor, diffuser) don't appear to be giving a good baseline, and I can only assume that's bad design. Maybe it's not entirely down to bad data, but I'm nervous that it might be given our issues last year and observations from winter testing etc... Granted, we're still in the thick of learning, but Ferrari themselves have conceded we have issues that we're trying to resolve. Time will tell exactly what they are.

[gazoz]

Hello folks, just arrived back from Melbourne and its dissapointing to see some of these posts... I had the pleasure to hang out yet again in the ferrari paddock and they are always positive and upbeat about themselves as a team, why not YOU?
There are lots of updates coming and rest assured they are working hard to understand this new Car and when they tweak it right it WILL FLY....

thanks for the post what gave you all this info or just hunch curious to know thx again

[Kyss4k]

why can't you do special thread for practice , quali , and race like last year ? To many posts here , is difficult to read all of them .

Greig wanted to try, if it is possible. I warned him

[Chicane]

Stop using caps, please. It is difficult to read. You can express your anger without SHOUTING.

HEY YOU DONT MIND THIS IS A FREEDOM FORUM..I DONT DISRESPECT ANYONE HERE SO TRY TO RESPECT MY PROTEST DONT READ MY POST IF ITS A PROBLEM FOR YOU.

[Suzie]

HEY YOU DONT MIND THIS IS A FREEDOM FORUM..I DONT DISRESPECT ANYONE HERE SO TRY TO RESPECT MY PROTEST DONT READ MY POST IF ITS A PROBLEM FOR YOU.

People have asked you politely to stop using all-caps. It's normal online etiquette to take your capslock off.

[Grinsomx]

so easy to shout "fire him,sack that one!"
but imo it's not that easy, Ferrari is trying to find their way again.
trying to get back on top of the rulebook while it probably changed more these last 5 years than it ever did before.
sacking more people now is going to do what exactly ? apart from setting us back another X years.
keep in mind that next year the "new" engines come into play, engines Ferrari never worked with before if i'm not mistaken.
if you really want to see the team restart their whole restructuring process now i hope you are also prepared to see and take the blame for a failing team.
if we are still going nowhere when they get back to Europe, fire whoever you want but right now...let them work! (just my opinion)

[FrankAlfa]

The F2012 only needs some "Fine Tuning" to get back to the front. There is way to much noise abour how bad things are. Just getting the "Balance" into the race car will yeild huge gains. They have to work on the Suspension more than anything!

As for the 2013 / 2014 year, Ferrari have had many past years of Turocharger Engine experience. They also have one of the finest Engineer's Directing and Designing the engine in the Luca Marmarini who has has done wonders with the old 056 Engine to make it Strong, Light and Reliable!

Ciao!

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Bertie]

Stefano: “In terms of the chassis there’s nothing going ahead. In terms of developments, yes, there are a lot of things that have to be improved, because I think there are two fundamental issues, one is the speed and the other thing is really the traction. Those are the two fundamental things that we really need to solve, and we really need hard to fix as soon as possible these major issues.”

What he means is that they know the problems, but they still do not know what are the root causes. A real shame for Ferrari really. All the while they know they have an issue with generating enough heat into tyres. Yet they still haven't figured it out what lies with the problem as of today. A team with the biggest budget is now fighting the race with much smaller teams.

I think we Ferrari fans have lost our patience with this bunch of people who only know how to give excuses race after race.

By the way, will anyone be going to Sepang this weekend? I think we may want to organize a protest to the team by putting up a banner to show our anger against the team that we care so much.

??? protest? lol. This looks like a rational response.

[FrankAlfa]

Speed is as function of traction which is a function of Mechanical Grip & Aero downforce. Ferrari have to work on the balance of the "Mechanical Grip" first and at the same time clean up the Aero downforce loss issue. The car will get faster as they adjust the settings of these items. Patience!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Corey]

Finally able to watch the whole race after being 30 hours late Guess we could call it a day for Alonso, given to how poor things went in qualifying. The guy was literally driving like a man possessed, and we wouldn't have had these hefty points this race if it wasn't for him. Still despite how we saw he gave it everything he's got today, it's still a little depressing to see ourselves battling with Williams. It's not the old days where Montoya was still in, except that the Williams today obviously isn't what we hope to be fighting for. OK fine, maybe they have improved to be the better of the mid-field teams, but still, who cares which cars are trailing us? We won't want to see ourselves being at least 10 seconds behind the car in front consistently. Saw no attacking power in that Ferrari, they do have a lot of work to do. Glad Stefano said they know where to improve.

Felipe, well, tough day obviously. Was surprised to see him at the rear end. Only saw the crash with Senna in one angle, so couldn't really put in an interpretation. Still, the two being stuck together means either Senna turned in on him and forcing him nowhere to go, or he drove into him and the two couldn't move at all. Whichever way it is, I guess all we could do is to wish him luck, hope he can get that "balance issue" right so we'll be up at the top 6.

Yet to see our true qualifying pace, Alonso was out before he pushed for his best lap. Only Sepang qualifying will tell if we have the qualy pace assuming Alonso or Massa plays it clean. Hope it tells us we'll Saturdays this season. And despite this setback, I have optimism that they'll be back by the time the European season starts. They learn from what they've experienced with the F2012 over the past few weeks, and the time till then should be enough for all those redesignings and any additional upgrades. Perhaps pace may show in China too, if we're lucky, given to how they've got the Easter and the time before/after to do this.

[SS454]

From Australia I come out with some encouragement and some discouragement.

I found Ferrari's race pace to be a positive. Sure the car isn't that fast, but we all know the car is not fundamentally fast at this point. I think the race pace on the hard tires was really good with a heavy tank of fuel. Even though the car was slow on the straights in qualifying, it did manage to do reasonably well at passing in race trim. Surprising. Also Alonso was better than the car was, and that is very important that Ferrari have a driver like that when the car is in such a situation. Ferrari need to improve quickly before Alonso gives up that attitude.

Unfortunately there are more negative points. The car is aerodynamically inefficient. It surprises me how much drag that car is making. I do believe they have tried to add as much downforce at the compromise of drag while testing the car, but they really need to fix that. I think the Acer tubes need to be fixed to help the aero efficiency at the rear of the car, as at this point they would appear to be doing more harm than good since their exhaust blowing idea has been scrapped in this design. I think the pull rod front suspension won't last, as I think this is part of the issues of the balance of the car. It is reported to be a heavier design, while lower in the nose for better COG, it does change the weight distribution and also the suspension geometry. I think this is causing inconsistencies to how the front tires heat up and react in different corners and makes for an unpredictable car. I think this is why Massa kept chasing a setup and could never get it how he wanted it.

Massa despite his poor balance of the car, he was awful. He better not be a second off Alonso all season, as that just isn't acceptable.

Honestly I don't expect a lot from this season, because Ferrari are playing catch up in such a massive way. Teams currently can be exploring exhaust solutions that McLaren/Redbull has, and every team is going to explore the f-duct type ideas Mercedes has, but Ferrari will be working on their front suspension mistake, and already stated to be completely redesigning the rear of the car. 1/4 of the season will likely be gone before they have reached the point they should have been at the start of the season.

[Greig]

Greig wanted to try, if it is possible. I warned him

Warned me about what?

There will be the same number of posts to read if they are in 3 threads or 1 thread to be honest.

[Kyss4k]

Warned me about what?

There will be the same number of posts to read if they are in 3 threads or 1 thread to be honest.

It is hard to find, where the 2nd practice/3rd practice/quali/race parts of the thread starts. There are times, where I want to look back and find something from the specific event and here is everything on one huge pile of coments. It's hard to find here something I don't know why to change something, what was not broken.

[FerrariF60]

It is hard to find, where the 2nd practice/3rd practice/quali/race parts of the thread starts. There are times, where I want to look back and find something from the specific event and here is everything on one huge pile of coments. It's hard to find here something I don't know why to change something, what was not broken.

i'm with you on this too; the new WAY seems to be a clutter of information in one tread and have no ideea where free practice posts end quali posts begin...etc
i liked it the OLD way much better, so i guess is NOT just me that noticed this

[Greig]

It is hard to find, where the 2nd practice/3rd practice/quali/race parts of the thread starts. There are times, where I want to look back and find something from the specific event and here is everything on one huge pile of coments. It's hard to find here something I don't know why to change something, what was not broken.

What do you want to find? you can search this thread for anything

[Aruba]

Well, after hoping for a beast of a car for the 2012 season, I have to say I am very dissapointed so far. Why do we "Ferrari fans" have to wait 4 or 5 races to see where we stand? Is is so difficult to just start at the top like Mclaren or Redbull? I don't get what is going the last year or so at Ferrari. It is very painful to see that we have the same pace as Williams F1 team.

If I am not mistaken last year at the beginning of the season they said the same thing about the car. We have to wait a couple of races to see where we stand. We have to wait for the new updates to see how we can improve. It just sounds like an old tape on a loop.

[Nova]

From Australia I come out with some encouragement and some discouragement.

I found Ferrari's race pace to be a positive. Sure the car isn't that fast, but we all know the car is not fundamentally fast at this point. I think the race pace on the hard tires was really good with a heavy tank of fuel. Even though the car was slow on the straights in qualifying, it did manage to do reasonably well at passing in race trim. Surprising. Also Alonso was better than the car was, and that is very important that Ferrari have a driver like that when the car is in such a situation. Ferrari need to improve quickly before Alonso gives up that attitude.

Unfortunately there are more negative points. The car is aerodynamically inefficient. It surprises me how much drag that car is making. I do believe they have tried to add as much downforce at the compromise of drag while testing the car, but they really need to fix that. I think the Acer tubes need to be fixed to help the aero efficiency at the rear of the car, as at this point they would appear to be doing more harm than good since their exhaust blowing idea has been scrapped in this design. I think the pull rod front suspension won't last, as I think this is part of the issues of the balance of the car. It is reported to be a heavier design, while lower in the nose for better COG, it does change the weight distribution and also the suspension geometry. I think this is causing inconsistencies to how the front tires heat up and react in different corners and makes for an unpredictable car. I think this is why Massa kept chasing a setup and could never get it how he wanted it.

Massa despite his poor balance of the car, he was awful. He better not be a second off Alonso all season, as that just isn't acceptable.

Honestly I don't expect a lot from this season, because Ferrari are playing catch up in such a massive way. Teams currently can be exploring exhaust solutions that McLaren/Redbull has, and every team is going to explore the f-duct type ideas Mercedes has, but Ferrari will be working on their front suspension mistake, and already stated to be completely redesigning the rear of the car. 1/4 of the season will likely be gone before they have reached the point they should have been at the start of the season.

Yes, but Alonso's pace after his last stop was not encouraging. Mabey it was the fact that it was getting late, sun going down/temp change, but he was losing more time at that stage than he did earlier.
As far as the front susp, its not been used successfully by anyone, mabey Ferrari thought they could find that sweet spot, but is proving to be harder than they thought. Matchet mentioned he hated that setup. Im no engineer, but I do wonder if this new car had the typical front susp found on all of the other cars, how much quicker and stable it would be. Then they could simply work on updates and improving the car instead of still trying to figure out whats wrong. Basically, it looks like theyre still at square one. So lets hope they get that figured out.
People wanted Ferrari to be radical..well they are, n it doesnt appear to be working. Then again, if it worked, they'd all be genius's.
I sure would love to see a Ferrari win.

[Kyss4k]

What do you want to find? you can search this thread for anything

You not always know by words what you want to find. You know the session, you know the race, where it was held and you know (if I am looking for the exact post) how to post was structured for example. But you just can't find it , by the search function on this. It happens all the time and not only on this pages. But I know, I will not change anything, so it's pointless for me to whine about it.

[scuderiafan]

Domenicali and Fry are flying back today to Maranello
Montezemolo wants answers

Lol so is the F2012s. I can just imagine Luca as a parent telling them all off, and Pat, Stefano and the cars sayins sorry just like a cartoon.

[Greig]

You not always know by words what you want to find. You know the session, you know the race, where it was held and you know (if I am looking for the exact post) how to post was structured for example. But you just can't find it , by the search function on this. It happens all the time and not only on this pages. But I know, I will not change anything, so it's pointless for me to whine about it.

So how did you find a post in the past?

[Tony]

Lol so is the F2012s. I can just imagine Luca as a parent telling them all off, and Pat, Stefano and the cars sayins sorry just like a cartoon.

Luca will yell, Stefano will cry and Pat will need an interpreter to understand what's going on (and possibly a towel to wipe his face off from the spit shower) lol....

[scuderiafan]

Luca will yell, Stefano will cry and Pat will need an interpreter to understand what's going on (and possibly a towel to wipe his face off from the spit shower) lol....

What of the cars? Try to run away, but the top speed will be too slow.

[Kyss4k]

So how did you find a post in the past?

You know, that you want to find some quali info for some race. Well, you go to that thread, where you have about 10-15 pages of that. You know, that the first 2 pages of the thread are about live streams, and pre-quali talk. You know that the last few pages are about celebrating/whining about the quali result. So the thread is beautifly separated in your mind, because it is not flooded by thousands of posts from every event.

What is happening now is that you have to first find the start of the event, which is not really clear (because the end phase of one session is fading with the start of the next one). Than you are blindly going from page to page (because you don't know, where the end of the session is). It takes quite a lot more time.

[epiclyaddicted]

What of the cars? Try to run away, but the top speed will be too slow.

They'll try to get out of Luca's office in a hurry, but will lose the rear on exit, hit the wall, and sit there looking sorry for themselves.