Second Barcelona Test 1st-4th Mar 2012 - news and pics

[underdog13]

We have Friday practice 3 hours to test parts... not like there isnt an oppourtunity to test new designs...

Programming wind tunnels and matching CFD models isnt that simple as you say..Ferrari tested in the Toyota Windtunnel and got better data correlation last year...

W duct is illegal...but nice concept though...and maybe u are forgetting the F1 is governed by rules ;)

Ferrari is in a transition, They seem to be playing catch up in regard to their simulation tools and correlation between wind tunnel, cfd and various other tools at their disposal. This is a team that can come up with an idea, manufacture it and in days gone by put it on the car and pound round fiorano and see if it works or not. 3 hours on a friday at some far flung race track is no comparison to spending 8 or 10 hours a day pounding round your own test track in your back yard. I recall seeing pics of the turbo cars of 1980/81/82 at fiorano testing at sunset and the turbos glowing! Schumacher and company would spend endless hours dialing in the car/tires. They can't do that now and it is hurting them.
I think if Mclaren ,Red Bull, Williams,or Lotus (renault) had their own test track, we wold have very different testing regulations. Its got to feel like a punch to the gut to Ferrari that they can't use fiorano or mugello like they used to.
That said, Ferrari has produced some duds, and some of the best and will do so again. I have been following them since 1979 ( and have read and researched the years before) and have seen some pretty terrible seasons as well as the most amazing. I have always kept the faith in good times and bad. My Ferrari flag will be flying no matter what kind of season we have as it has for the past 33 years.
Be humble in Victory and Gracious in defeat
Cheers

[dmkevin]

I agree. i don't understand why they would do such thing... modifying there car to a more conventional exhaust and then in 4 or 5 races times change it back to a blowing the brake ducts again... if ferrari really want to make the radical exhaust work, they need track time hence test in on track, adjust wind tunnel/CFD correlation coefficients until they find the right balance between on track and computer sim/wind tunnel data. So for me the best would be to stick with the exhaust position and it doesn't matter whether we are last or mid field in the first few races but at least we will have the data to keep on updating the car until we get it to work... Think red bull RB5, it was not fast straight from day one, Adrian Newey stuck with its EBD whilst Brawn GP had DDD and was faster... RB5 in the end was faster than the DDD of brawn. newey knew that his ideas would work at some point and stuck with... although he changed the RB6 to include DDD he was still blowing the floor and using EBD which no one else was doing properly...they perfected their idea/vision and made the car nearly unbeatable!!! If pat Fry rea;lly believe that the acer duct is the best solution then ferrari should stick with it for the better or worst and i believe that blowing the brake ducts is the best solution although complex. being an aerospace engineer and having a good understanding of aerodynamic, i am quite sure that the best route is our design, the red bull and other are way too conservative and they won't get much out of the exhaust development... unless Newey is working on blowing the top part of the back wing...

[dmkevin]

Guys, another season of being behind red bull and mclaren is not a problem... our radical design can be exploited and developed to reach a potential that RB has done in the past and still is!!! so what if we don't win the championship but in the last 8 races we are way faster than them lot, this will mean that next year we will have a better baseline to work on whereas all the others will have to innovate else they won't catch us.... so here we are stop putting pressure on the SF team, let them work... we should all plead for them not to change the car... they should stick with the route that we believed in. just imagine if we can get 25% of the down force back, we will be way above anybody else cause there design don't give more than 10%, looking at how far the exhaust is from the diffuser, the effect will be stable but not super doopa like what we could achieve.... I believe pat fry said at least 25% correct me if i am wrong!!! if it is at least then at most we could get more. if not 25% from exhaust is pretty damn good... the rest we could get from the floor and other part of the car etc...!!!

[NasI]

The team will be looking good at the first race. Do not get surprised! All this is mind-games. With all the data we have had we know how to bring the car strong in Melbourne. Look at RB they thought that Ferrari will bring it's latest upgrade to last days of Barcelona testing and they thought that this will be the right thing for them to do, but unfortunately for them went wrong. I liked very much that we did not bring the parts in Barcelona. Bringing the parts before the race give me to think and from what i have heard that they are very convinced about their work and will let everyone with the thumb in their mouth.

[dmkevin]

The team will be looking good at the first race. Do not get surprised! All this is mind-games. With all the data we have had we know how to bring the car strong in Melbourne. Look at RB they thought that Ferrari will bring it's latest upgrade to last days of Barcelona testing and they thought that this will be the right thing for them to do, but unfortunately for them went wrong. I liked very much that we did not bring the parts in Barcelona. Bringing the parts before the race give me to think and from what i have heard that they are very convinced about their work and will let everyone with the thumb in their mouth.

There might be some truth in what you said mate... now looking at it from a different perspective, i can see the logic in it... Since most of the front runners have already come up with their solutions, they would have to make big amends if ferrari was to come with their radical design unmodified but developed and finalised for the first race and is much faster than them. So if they were to copy ferrari side pod and exhaust design they will either have modify their chassis, sidepods which will mean they will need a new crash test... meaning they wont be able to implement the solution straight away and that not taking into account that they will probably not get the same output as ferrari due to the other elements that adds to the balance of the car... this will give ferrari a big advantage in terms of development as they will be much further ahead... It will then be "catch me if u can"... Ferrari had jerez and coup[le of days in 1st barcelona test to collect data and analyse the radical exhaust pos gain... after that they went for a conventional system, blowing the wing beam!!! if you look at it they have had nearly exactly the same time to evaluate and compare the two system which would have given them enough information to know their development route... whereas the other teams do not have the comparison and hence have only one route of development!!! I believe we we might be in much better position that everybody think come the first race

[burak karakutuk]

Is there any possibility to use the toyota wind tunnel again?

[Pekka]

I agree. i don't understand why they would do such thing... modifying there car to a more conventional exhaust and then in 4 or 5 races times change it back to a blowing the brake ducts again... if ferrari really want to make the radical exhaust work, they need track time hence test in on track, adjust wind tunnel/CFD correlation coefficients until they find the right balance between on track and computer sim/wind tunnel data. So for me the best would be to stick with the exhaust position and it doesn't matter whether we are last or mid field in the first few races but at least we will have the data to keep on updating the car until we get it to work... Think red bull RB5, it was not fast straight from day one, Adrian Newey stuck with its EBD whilst Brawn GP had DDD and was faster... RB5 in the end was faster than the DDD of brawn. newey knew that his ideas would work at some point and stuck with... although he changed the RB6 to include DDD he was still blowing the floor and using EBD which no one else was doing properly...they perfected their idea/vision and made the car nearly unbeatable!!! If pat Fry rea;lly believe that the acer duct is the best solution then ferrari should stick with it for the better or worst and i believe that blowing the brake ducts is the best solution although complex. being an aerospace engineer and having a good understanding of aerodynamic, i am quite sure that the best route is our design, the red bull and other are way too conservative and they won't get much out of the exhaust development... unless Newey is working on blowing the top part of the back wing...

Agreed with this. They are a bit lost with their on-track and off-track results..

[raiden]

Lets just put it this way when a new car is out of the drawing board and to the race track doing what is supposed to be testing, you will try different solutions to address a problem and that is what they are doing trying and testing different configurations collate then analyze the data make comparisons and decide which way to go on the next development program

[xlr8]

Turn 10, barcelona

[Gerhard Berger]

I agree. i don't understand why they would do such thing... modifying there car to a more conventional exhaust and then in 4 or 5 races times change it back to a blowing the brake ducts again... if ferrari really want to make the radical exhaust work, they need track time hence test in on track, adjust wind tunnel/CFD correlation coefficients until they find the right balance between on track and computer sim/wind tunnel data. So for me the best would be to stick with the exhaust position and it doesn't matter whether we are last or mid field in the first few races but at least we will have the data to keep on updating the car until we get it to work... Think red bull RB5, it was not fast straight from day one, Adrian Newey stuck with its EBD whilst Brawn GP had DDD and was faster... RB5 in the end was faster than the DDD of brawn. newey knew that his ideas would work at some point and stuck with... although he changed the RB6 to include DDD he was still blowing the floor and using EBD which no one else was doing properly...they perfected their idea/vision and made the car nearly unbeatable!!! If pat Fry rea;lly believe that the acer duct is the best solution then ferrari should stick with it for the better or worst and i believe that blowing the brake ducts is the best solution although complex. being an aerospace engineer and having a good understanding of aerodynamic, i am quite sure that the best route is our design, the red bull and other are way too conservative and they won't get much out of the exhaust development... unless Newey is working on blowing the top part of the back wing...

RB5 never had an EBD. It was very fast out of the blocks. Brawn were faster, but the RB5 was certainly not slow and was 2nd only to Brawn early in the season.

As for our car, if blowing the brake ducts is causing problems and not working then it would be stupid to persist with it.

[Nisko]

Horner about Ferrari:

Horner said it would be foolish to write off Ferrari so early in the season despite their problems in testing.

"Winter testing is inconclusive in so many ways," he added. "Last year Ferrari looked like they were the dominant team going into the first race, but as it transpired they only won one race.

"It's so difficult to say. We've had our blinkers on and focused on our own programmes.

"They've got a great team, they haven't fully shown their hand yet. I think they're more competitive than people believe they are. I'm sure the car looks a handful but sometimes a difficult car can be a quick car so it would be foolish to write off Fernando (Alonso) going into Melbourne."

[Hombre B]

[Suzie]

What i hate about Domenicalli is his 1 strike policy if you made a mistake boom your out..poor cris dyer his a good damn engineer unfortunately it was a big mistake in 2010 but imo you have to stick and dig with a guy who help you won a lot of championship..but its really a shame we didnt get brawn..and choose him instead..stefano is a marketing guy..what does he knows about racing

How do you know it's Stefano that wields the axe, and not Luca di M? What do you mean by calling him a marketing guy? Did he not work closely with Jean Todt before taking over his job?

Also, IIRC, Brawn didn't want to take the Team Principal position. How many seasons has Ross been gone now, and some are still going on about it?

Dislike team members if you wish but perhaps criticise them in a constructive manner rather than throwing the word 'hate' about.

[Hornet]

Horner about Ferrari:

"They've got a great team, they haven't fully shown their hand yet. I think they're more competitive than people believe they are. I'm sure the car looks a handful but sometimes a difficult car can be a quick car so it would be foolish to write off Fernando (Alonso) going into Melbourne."

That's true. Last season, Alonso managed to get several podium finishes in the F150 which was bad. Anyone who thinks Lotus and Mercedes could beat Ferrari would be disappointed.

[Hornet]

Sorry for double post. Please delete.

[Sianellen]

How do you know it's Stefano that wields the axe, and not Luca di M? What do you mean by calling him a marketing guy? Did he not work closely with Jean Todt before taking over his job?

Also, IIRC, Brawn didn't want to take the Team Principal position. How many seasons has Ross been gone now, and some are still going on about it?

Dislike team members if you wish but perhaps criticise them in a constructive manner rather than throwing the word 'hate' about.

He should be sacked! In fact wasn't he sacked last year when everyone was sacked. Why is Felipe still in the car? Wasn't he sacked as well.

[epiclyaddicted]

He should be sacked! In fact wasn't he sacked last year when everyone was sacked. Why is Felipe still in the car? Wasn't he sacked as well.

Ferrari should sack Fry, Tombazis, Domenicali and Luca Di. Instead Alonso should replace all of them, taking in multiple positions of Chief Designer, Head of the Gestione Sportiva as well as President of Ferrari, oh and stick him in as Chairman of FIAT while we're at it! Now that's the proper radical change we need!!

[ferrari4life]

Lots of talk going on about the Red Bull use of the wing.. (not exhaust related) but something to do with an f-duct like device.. anyone have any reading about this?

[Fer12]

It was actually developed my Mercedes,then copied by RB & Macca..we will be seeing the same on our car sometime soon i guess..

[Hombre B]

Scarb:

Interesting observation from Giorgio Piola in @AUTOSPORTdigi that the RBR rear wing has extra slots underneath it. which IMO is not legal ?
Article 3.10.1 in the tech regs demands a minimum radius of 100mm on the rear wing surface, preventing slots such as those on the RB8 wing.

[scuderiafan]

How do you know it's Stefano that wields the axe, and not Luca di M? What do you mean by calling him a marketing guy? Did he not work closely with Jean Todt before taking over his job?

Also, IIRC, Brawn didn't want to take the Team Principal position. How many seasons has Ross been gone now, and some are still going on about it?

Dislike team members if you wish but perhaps criticise them in a constructive manner rather than throwing the word 'hate' about.

The flav apologists conveniently forget the 2008 WCC, and the fact that Stefano was a high up member of the dream team, being team manager at the time/sporting director.

But the. Facts. Ever get in the way of a good old fashioned 'bash the spaghettis'

[Fer12]

We donot have any problems with the wind tunnel..
Marc Gene confirms it..
http://t.co/Pg5Hm9cr

[TheProdigalSon]

Turn 10, barcelona

Twice in a row that lotus locked up and the second time Kimi went completely off the road. Brake balance issue it looks like to me..

[Ste]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Fernando.

[scuderiafan]

if that is a prancing horse, i don't care

fantastic, that wind tunnel is working. now to egt on top of issues very quickly, i have faith now.

[dmkevin]

RB5 never had an EBD. It was very fast out of the blocks. Brawn were faster, but the RB5 was certainly not slow and was 2nd only to Brawn early in the season.

As for our car, if blowing the brake ducts is causing problems and not working then it would be stupid to persist with it.

yeah you are right my mistake EBD was born with the RB6... RB5 had exhaust similar to RB8 but blowing the wing beam... What i meant is if Pat Fry really believed that their radical exhaust design will yield more benefits as he mentioned in his interview then why should SF change it now, they will be at a worst stage if they were to revert to it later on as he mentioned as well. He said that they will move to a more conventional design for the first four races or so and then go back to the radical one... if there wind tunnel/cfd correlation data are wrong then the best way to get this to work is with on track testing and there is nothing better than testing during race weekends as you will be able to compare where you are against everybody!!! i understand the change if pat Fry said something similar to what mclaren said last year of their exhaust!!!

[NanoTheQuickest]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Fernando.

It's not going to affect his racing skills too much I think You know where I'm going with this!

[Katu]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Fernando.

that certainly wasn't necessary, but who knows, maybe it means something important to him

[Suzie]

What's the problem with him having a tattoo? Pray tell.

[Katu]

What's the problem with him having a tattoo? Pray tell.

nothing wrong him having it - i have one too... just not visible to everyone. maybe seeing a part of it just don't give a clear picture what it might be