Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[PURE PASSION]

Gary Anderson's thoughts:
So my suggestion to Ferrari would be to have a slightly less aggressive DRS system. They have one of the biggest gains in top speed when the DRS is open compared to when it is closed.

I thought that ferrari said the exact opposite!!

Problem: when in DRS-Position our RW still generates too much drag and downforce "Supposedly only two points. That is almost one percent. For the other teams in the top-speed gain is significantly higher when the rear wing flap is folded up."
"The training is a real handicap. On the Buddh International Circuit on 55 percent of the lap was driven in DRS position. In the race the wing can only overtaking and depending on the track at one or two places are open. Then is Ferraris disadvantage negligible. Therefore, the F2012 has two faces. A training and a race face."
"To build a wing that in DRS position reduces much air resistance is no big deal. But the shot can backfire. Who interprets the wing too extreme gets another problem which costs even more lap time. The air flow not immediately back after DRS-shut. Then when braking lacks downforce. The confusion among pilots."

"Ferrari is working flat out on a rear wing that can do both. Hence the aero test the week before last in Idiada. "I hope we get him back yet," team boss Domenicali prays for use at the GP of Abu Dhabi.

[mark p]

You know what,that might actually be the best thing to do,so far soo many upgrades has come that has got everyone soo confused,so better have proper data on the ones already used,and make the best out of it!!

This would be good. In 2010 Mercedes gained a second from no upgrades in 2nd half of the year just from set up. With only 2 races to keep bringing bits and spending all Friday on them they miss setup time.. You will always compromise one or 90 minute practse would not be needed. In Abu Dhabi they struggled with tyre temp which cost qualifying from what I could see. Keep the car as it is and focus on setup no more parts are needed until you set the car up to take existing upgrades. RB changed in Si.gapour but potential not seen until Japan. Mclaren in Germany potential not seen until Hungary. Earlier in the year Ferrari made inroads with barely any changes on the car. New parts need time so no point putting on new stuff now as more time will come from set up.

[dmkevin]

why are we still stuck with "mix and match"formula??? .....shouldnt we be getting something more(floor ,sidepods) since we've already got access to the toyota wind tunnel???

makes me wonder, was the real problem the faulty tunnel??!!! or just the lack of a strong aero team!

Agree with u!!! nothing wrong with our wind tunnel, maybe its not the most uptodate but i still believe there is nothing wrong with it!!! its our aero team, they cant see beyond the computer data, thats what ferrari lack at the moment. Someone who can see beyond these numbers from wind tunnel... Gary Anderson is right when he said and im sure SF knows it as well!!! But what can we do, just have to hope by next year they would have understood the way to work with the wind tunnel... look what domenica said, dont like computers, i like to see how it works on the track!! and i believe same applies with the wind tunnel... if the boss is saying so, what message that sends to the team in terms on getting their act together and get the work going in the tunnel!!!
on the flip side, i believe ferrari shouldnt bring anymore upgrades maybe minor tweaks... as few of u mentioned we should be concentrating on set-up... i believe lewis got his car set-up such that it could hit the sweat spot of the tire performance consistently, as with rosberg when he won and button .... if we get lucky and hit that, by working purely on set up, we could win the next 2 races!!! i believe set up alone could get us more performance than upgrades!!!

[gjoko-mkd]

please someone to show the engines situation.vivaf1 don`t work

[type056]

[Greig]

would be a lot better it showed what engine was used in each gp.

[type056]

It showed.
For example Alonso used engine #3 from Spain to European GP.

[ferrari4life]

It showed.
For example Alonso used engine #3 from Spain to European GP.

that is incorrect.. it just showed that they used the 3rd new engine.. He could have used any of the previous 3 engines for those races.

[Grillo]

I see Vettel used his 8th engine in India while Alonso used it in Abu Dhabi but the situation for Red Bull seems ok. We need a big upgrade from Newey that breaks the basket or something as stupid as the fuel load in Q3 just to be able to beat Webber as Hamilton was clearly out of reach for Vettel. I hope such idiocy cost them the title but we it won't. We need much much more idiotic decissions, mistakes... We simply need a miracle.

[gjoko-mkd]

type056-can you help me to understand why I can`t open vivaf1

[type056]

I do have the same problem.
Found it on FB.

[gjoko-mkd]

thanks,but i don`t have a FB profile

[Forzafonz]

I have problem with access to vivaf1 like your. But i found this picture in twitter vivaf1. I don't know, allowed me to public here link on the outer resource or not, but anyway: https://twitter.com/VivaF1.

[anialonso]

I think Ferrari lack the rear downforce needed to generate heat into the tires..that could explain why Alonso was slow after safety car restarts and later picked up pace...

[Hornet]

It appears that today, Sauber is testing the DRD (someone came up with this term, not me ) which is the passive stalling device tested by Lotus earlier.

I fear we have another challenge to work on next year, besides coming up with a strong car

[wacc]

It appears that today, Sauber is testing the DRD (someone came up with this term, not me ) which is the passive stalling device tested by Lotus earlier.

I fear we have another challenge to work on next year, besides coming up with a strong car

Yep, it is a bit off topic but here is the picture:




In this context I am not sure, if Ferrari's Magny-Cours test wasn't wasted opportunity. Maybe the only outcome was, that they were having correlation issues.

[Rosso Corsa]

Gary Andersons thoughts

The big mystery of this season has been how the Ferrari can be a second off the pace in qualifying and only a tenth of a second or two off it in the race. I think I've figured out what the problem is.

It is a rear wing and diffuser problem, but it's a little complicated to explain, so bear with me.

In qualifying, the DRS overtaking aid can be used all the time. A driver comes off a corner and opens the DRS as soon as possible, reducing the drag and the wing wake, which gives extra straight-line speed.

As the car goes faster, the rear gets closer to the ground and that 'stalls' the diffuser, which is the underfloor which curves upwards at the back of the car. 'Stalling' means the airflow is not attached to it any more, and that reduces the downforce it produces.

When the driver brakes for the next corner, the car changes attitude - the rear comes up.

I am 99.99% sure that at that time, on the Ferrari, the diffuser does not re-attach immediately.

If that was the problem, the drivers and team would know. If it was costing us lap time, we'd turn off the DRS sooner to let the flow re-attach before corner entry, and wouldn't use it at all in some of the short 100m squirts between corners when it's only open for one or two seconds. After all, our top speed without DRS open is faster than many of the teams when their DRS is open. The drivers would know in a heartbeat if this was the problem. But they're totally committed to using DRS at every opportunity in qualifying, which suggests it's not a problem.

I think our DRS is fine. I think we're lower on downforce in general than Red Bull which is why we're losing time to them in the corners and why they're not as fast on the straights.

Abu Dhabi turned out to be a very tricky circuit to compare car performances on. A lotus won, Pastor Maldonado qualified near the front, Lewis was in a different race, Fernando dispatched Webber and left him for dead in no time, and Fernando's tyres gave him a different league of performance in the closing stages of the race which Vettel couldn't match. Fernando couldn't improve his lap time between qualifying sessions either. I think it was one of those circuits where the 'Pirelli anomoly' makes comparison between cars very difficult, and am hopeful this is the reason Ferrari didn't see the gains they expected.

[wacc]

I thought Ferrari drivers control the DRS via a pedal. At least thats what AMuS wrote. As soon as they take the left foot off it moving to break pedal the DRS switches off and air flow starts reattaching even before they hit the break pedal. In this case Andersons theory could have flaw.

[Rosso Corsa]

I thought Ferrari drivers control the DRS via a pedal. At least thats what AMuS wrote. As soon as they take the left foot off it moving to break pedal the DRS switches off and air flow starts reattaching even before they hit the break pedal. In this case Andersons theory could have flaw.

That's right, but what Gary's suggesting is that the airflow isn't re-attaching at that moment, it's taking longer. Which I don't believe. We'd just close DRS sooner to re-attach it before the corner if that was the case.

[F2002]

That's right, but what Gary's suggesting is that the airflow isn't re-attaching at that moment, it's taking longer. Which I don't believe. We'd just close DRS sooner to re-attach it before the corner if that was the case.

I don't think that closing DRS earlier would have the desired impact, because apparently the rear's height from the ground increases on braking not on DRS release. In that case, you'd probably have to mean braking earlier, which defeats the purpose.

[Rosso Corsa]

I don't think that closing DRS earlier would have the desired impact, because apparently the rear's height from the ground increases on braking not on DRS release. In that case, you'd probably have to mean braking earlier, which defeats the purpose.

Maybe it wouldn't have the desired impact, but if re-attachment was delayed and was costing us lap time in the corners, we surely wouldn't use it in those 1 or 2 second bursts between corners in qualifying? The drivers wouldn't press the pedal to open DRS if they felt it was compromising their performance in the corners/lap time. Our performance in the corners during the race when we're not using DRS isn't as good as the Red Bull, which to me suggests re-attachment isn't a problem. Maybe Gary is right, but my feeling is that we're just a point or two lower in downforce than Red Bull overall. This shows up most when we've no fuel on board in qualifying.

[SoumyaBanerjee]

Maybe it wouldn't have the desired impact, but if re-attachment was delayed and was costing us lap time in the corners, we surely wouldn't use it in those 1 or 2 second bursts between corners in qualifying? The drivers wouldn't press the pedal to open DRS if they felt it was compromising their performance in the corners/lap time. Our performance in the corners during the race when we're not using DRS isn't as good as the Red Bull, which to me suggests re-attachment isn't a problem. Maybe Gary is right, but my feeling is that we're just a point or two lower in downforce than Red Bull overall. This shows up most when we've no fuel on board in qualifying.

Yup,i agree. I feel that the difficulty in re-attachment is having an effect upon the car's qualifying performance,but in all likelihood,its not the only factor. Otherwise,how can one explain the fluctuation in gaps to pole for the red cars. At Korea and India for example,the gap to pole was .3-.5 of a second compared to the 1 second gap seen at Abu Dhabi a couple of days back. Whereas LH dominated the weekend in his un-updated McLaren till his retirement,which shows how important circuit characteristics are in dictating performance....
Hopefully,Austin will suit us a bit. Im a bit more sceptical about Brazil,as its an extremely technical track and the RB has been amazing there for the past 2 years....

[Retroblue]

Yup,i agree. I feel that the difficulty in re-attachment is having an effect upon the car's qualifying performance,but in all likelihood,its not the only factor. Otherwise,how can one explain the fluctuation in gaps to pole for the red cars. At Korea and India for example,the gap to pole was .3-.5 of a second compared to the 1 second gap seen at Abu Dhabi a couple of days back. Whereas LH dominated the weekend in his un-updated McLaren till his retirement,which shows how important circuit characteristics are in dictating performance....
Hopefully,Austin will suit us a bit. Im a bit more sceptical about Brazil,as its an extremely technical track and the RB has been amazing there for the past 2 years....

I have the same feelings too. I think Austin is our only chance to regain the lead in WDC, coz in Brazil it would be really tough to keep pace with RB. But still one can't predict anything as reliability plays a major factor too, since all the teams have used up their stipulated quota of engines and don't have any fresh engines left. In 2006 when we were thinking that MSC will take the lead in WDC in Japan and would finish it off in Brazil, his engine popped up. So, till then, fingers crossed.........

[Gerhard Berger]

I have the same feelings too. I think Austin is our only chance to regain the lead in WDC, coz in Brazil it would be really tough to keep pace with RB. But still one can't predict anything as reliability plays a major factor too, since all the teams have used up their stipulated quota of engines and don't have any fresh engines left. In 2006 when we were thinking that MSC will take the lead in WDC in Japan and would finish it off in Brazil, his engine popped up. So, till then, fingers crossed.........

Brazil might be wet too.

[Tifoso84]

I have the same feelings too. I think Austin is our only chance to regain the lead in WDC, coz in Brazil it would be really tough to keep pace with RB. But still one can't predict anything as reliability plays a major factor too, since all the teams have used up their stipulated quota of engines and don't have any fresh engines left. In 2006 when we were thinking that MSC will take the lead in WDC in Japan and would finish it off in Brazil, his engine popped up. So, till then, fingers crossed.........

Both remaining tracks should suit our car very well. Austin is similar to the Turkey track and we've always been pretty fast in Brazil. So anything is still possible.

[Nova]

One thing that has been on my mind, everyone is so fixed on the rear of the car, think I mentioned months ago about the front end of the RB.
At the step on all of the cars is simply a step. cept for Mac. But on the RB, the step is actually an intake. Now what it does, no one knows, why its there and what purpose
it serves, no one knows...What amazes me is the fact that no other team has copied it, tried the idea or it, and doing something with it.
It could be running air to the front wing, or there could even be duct work running thru the car to any other area.
Im amazed no one has even mentioned it. I mean, its Newey, its def there for a reason.
And really, I did think that after the season started, Id see that on more cars.

[Retroblue]

Actually, whenever I see Fernando speaking to the press, I get confidence in our car and our teams ability to win this championship. Alonso really exerts positive energy not only to the team but to the fans as well. So, its not over until its over.

[Retroblue]

One thing that has been on my mind, everyone is so fixed on the rear of the car, think I mentioned months ago about the front end of the RB.
At the step on all of the cars is simply a step. cept for Mac. But on the RB, the step is actually an intake. Now what it does, no one knows, why its there and what purpose
it serves, no one knows...What amazes me is the fact that no other team has copied it, tried the idea or it, and doing something with it.
It could be running air to the front wing, or there could even be duct work running thru the car to any other area.
Im amazed no one has even mentioned it. I mean, its Newey, its def there for a reason.
And really, I did think that after the season started, Id see that on more cars.

At first I was also curious about that slot in the nose step but now I think its not that significant. As if it would had been, then surely other teams would have tried to copy it. Its the rear exhaust design which is making them go like rocket. Maybe we should try something similar to that concept too.

[anialonso]

Actually, whenever I see Fernando speaking to the press, I get confidence in our car and our teams ability to win this championship. Alonso really exerts positive energy not only to the team but to the fans as well. So, its not over until its over.

Thats why he is best driver on the grid..!!!!!!!

[FF1]

Hi.. Dint know where to post this.. I am a hardcore ferrari fan. just thought of sharing my thought.. Ferrai shud create a separate email account where fans can email ideas to improve the car for present or future as many fans are good engineers with great knowledge or some one with some great innovative ideas can come up with something and the ferrari engineers can use some of it.. If newey is innovatve, I am sure we fans can get together and defeat newey in innovation..just my thought and if soemone who knows a ferrari official can pass this on to them