European GP 2010 Official Race Thread

[Greig]

He had to try and get past buemi. At best this race was damage limitation the moment the safety car came out. I wont blame him for trying to get past buemi and score as many points as possible.
I also think seeing the pace at which the sauber was coming at him, he was trying to get that torro rosso inbetween himself and kobiyashi.
He lost out to the sauber, but not for want of trying or making a mistake.

But he was told on the radio they were being investigated, to keep cool and calm, was a shame he never held onto that place as Kobi was not one of those under threat of punishment.

[TheProdigalSon]

Awh diddums, you are the one clearly with no idea what the debate is about, I suggest you go back and read it again, then come back with a reasonable understanding of what you are actually trying to debate, I love how you deflect Alonso onto the car, typical fanboy response, and also not at all looking to antagonize Ferrari fans yeah LOL. I am not frustrated in the slightest, you are the one being paranoid

talking to you is like talking to a brick wall... no point.. therefore im going to treat you like one

[Greig]

talking to you is like talking to a brick wall... no point.. therefore im going to treat you like one

No point when you have no idea what you are actually debating, keep taking those paranoid pills

[TheProdigalSon]

whats that? was a brick wall just talking to me.. naaa It must be me just getting paranoid

[Agron]

What I expect once and for all is for us to go next race all out and not caring about the rules if we benefit from doing so. Overtaking the SC, speeding in the pitlane, throwing cars off the track, whatever. If the rules are there just to be broken we shouldn't be the only idiots to act properly and within the law.

[DIEK]

This photo explains all, Hamilton has right...

[Greig]

This photo explanins all, Hamilton has right...

LOL seriously you are using a freeze frame from 30 feet above, seriously think about it from the drivers view at 100MPH+

[netlord]

Planned what? planned to pass the SC before the line yes, meaning no penalty, no foul and Alonso screwed, what part don't you get?

How about we discuss Alonso's inability to hold off a Sauber instead?

But the problem is he passed the SC after the line.

[Greig]

But the problem is he passed the SC after the line.

And nobody is denying that, he should have been fully punished

[netlord]

And nobody is denying that, he should have been fully punished

I know where you are coming from. But you should be a bit softer with some of the more fanatic fans. I beleive you know better than that. And for someone who doesn't usually read you, it really seems you are going against alonso sometimes, which is totally false.

[UkTifosi]

So what were saying here is Ramilton passed the safety car after the line and he just got a 5 second penalty? I agree with a previous post, Nando should just floor it next time.

[Rob]

Thats what Stefano and Alonso has said. Next time if that is all you will get , then you have 3 laps to get good times,then come in for drive thro. No disadvantage. You end up where you were.

How many more times is reprilton going to get away with this.

[Lesky]

If that is the case, then it was very clever Much like the time Alonso slowed to make MS pass him under yellows at Hungary one year, rat too?

Fair play to Greig for admitting things both ways in this case

Hamilton would have been smart had he passed the safety-car just before the line, instead of after it. So now Hamilton pulled off a sneaky move, and got saved by the lengthy investigation.

Alonso were screwed only by the circumstances, and should not be blamed at all, because it was just being very unlucky!

I am glad it was not a huge mistake by Ferrari, which was suggested here before getting all info.

Its understandable Alonso is off, but he should be mad at the circumstances and not Lewis trick, since he has done the same himself. Or of course he can be mad anyway, since its not much fun being on the other side of such a stunt. But whining publicly about it only makes him look like a hypocrate.

---
On a positive note Massa did really well in qualifying

[maho]

Just watched the whole race on bbc Iplayer and the bias towards Hamilton is just sickening. Eddie Jordan saying its just "sour grapes" from Alonso is pathetic analysis of the situation. What would he say if the roles were reversed... why cant they just be professional.
A stop and go penalty would have been more suitable given the benefits Hamilton got from cheating....

[theodorus8864]

At some point I agree with Greig that in either way we are still screwed. Lucky of Hamilton to find that sneaky move on SC, which I can only say that we appear at the wrong place, at the wrong timing. But this will be a valuable lesson for Ferrari to start taking chances instead of playing it safe. For now Alonso and Stefano just need to get their heads cool, and work on the car even harder than the other two teams, and f*** them to the core at Silverstone. That's what I call sweet revenge~!!!

[Hornet]

Fair play to Greig for admitting things both ways in this case

Hamilton would have been smart had he passed the safety-car just before the line, instead of after it. So now Hamilton pulled off a sneaky move, and got saved by the lengthy investigation.

Alonso were screwed only by the circumstances, and should not be blamed at all, because it was just being very unlucky!

I believe that's what Lewis intend to do, surely he knows the consequences and the need to get ahead of the SC first.
He screwed himself over for trying to screw Alonso race by holding him back to allow the SC past. But it doesn't really make a difference anyway, he still ended up P2 which is where he will be even without a penalty.

He would have pass the SC safely long before that had he focus on his own race rather than trying to mess around with other drivers.

expect to see more of this if the FIA doesn't cover this loophole. Don't we all love these sneaky stuff?

[DIEK]

The rule to open the pit lane with the safety car was for the time of refueling, and should have been changed in 2010...

[DIEK]

[Rob]

enraged to right!!!!!!!!!!

BBC are very bias, the only people who aint bias is David Croft and Ant Davison on BBC5 live commentry.

time to email another complaint i think.

[crewskas]

Correct me if I'm wrong,
but Brundle said in the race something like "it's a shame, if Lewis didn't have a penalty we might see a fight in front" ?
I thought Dennis took the mic...!

[Suzie]

I switched over to the 5Live commentary instead for the first time during the race and I'm sticking with it. More and more Brundle shows that he has a problem with Ferrari.

[Mirage]

The offical F1 website says Massa had a new gearbox fitted with different pickup points to help with the new diffuser and exhaust. Anyone know if Alonso had the same gearbox? Sounded like he didnt.

[epiclyaddicted]

Yeah, during the race, when Legard and Brundle started saying things like "poor Lewis, that drive-through cost him a chance of victory and blah blah blah..." I was on the verge of exploding with rage. Immediately switched over to the 5live commentary, and that was much better. Although Crofty can sometimes, just edge a little bit towards sounding biased, it's nothing as bad as Legard, and recently Brundle as well. Anthony Davidson was refreshingly reasonable and fair I thought.

[TheProdigalSon]

Fair play to Greig for admitting things both ways in this case

Hamilton would have been smart had he passed the safety-car just before the line, instead of after it. So now Hamilton pulled off a sneaky move, and got saved by the lengthy investigation.

Alonso were screwed only by the circumstances, and should not be blamed at all, because it was just being very unlucky!

I am glad it was not a huge mistake by Ferrari, which was suggested here before getting all info.

Its understandable Alonso is off, but he should be mad at the circumstances and not Lewis trick, since he has done the same himself. Or of course he can be mad anyway, since its not much fun being on the other side of such a stunt. But whining publicly about it only makes him look like a hypocrate.

---
On a positive note Massa did really well in qualifying

What are you on about, Lewis didn't have a clue what he was doing, it wasn't a trick. He just had brainfade and clumsy driving, and decided to go for it too late, and it would have cost him as much as he cost alonso and massa's race but thankfully the stewards bought him the time he needed.

People instantly think Alonso was mad becuase it's lewis and the history, but he was mad at the stewards for not doing anything and the fact he had second in the bag.

[Stormsearcher]

What are you on about, Lewis didn't have a clue what he was doing, it wasn't a trick. He just had brainfade and clumsy driving, and decided to go for it too late, and it would have cost him as much as he cost alonso and massa's race but thankfully the stewards bought him the time he needed.

People instantly think Alonso was mad becuase it's lewis and the history, but he was mad at the stewards for not doing anything and the fact he had second in the bag.

Its quite possible that lewis was brainless in his act... but am sure the history between them aided the backlash by alonso. If it was button who did what hamilton did, even alonso might have said button was in 2 minds and decided to take it. But its lewis, and having watched him since 2007, i wont put it past him to try something dirty like this.

[Tifosi]

Yeah, during the race, when Legard and Brundle started saying things like "poor Lewis, that drive-through cost him a chance of victory and blah blah blah..." I was on the verge of exploding with rage. Immediately switched over to the 5live commentary, and that was much better. Although Crofty can sometimes, just edge a little bit towards sounding biased, it's nothing as bad as Legard, and recently Brundle as well. Anthony Davidson was refreshingly reasonable and fair I thought.

Brundle constantly leaps to Lewis's defence. He wouldn't admit he'd jumped the safety car on Sunday - it was too hard for him. It's so blatent. He's always first to talk about Ferrari in negative terms though, whatever it is. You only have to open your ears and listen to him.

Legard reminds me of the kid at school who always agrees with whatever the big boy he wants to hang around with says. Hasn't got an original thought of his own.

[Ant Raikkonen]

I've been slowly working my way through this thread and i find myself generally in agreeance with Greig. I do feel that Alonso has been rattled (regrettably so, although we can clearly
see why).

I agree that kudos should be given to Mclaren in the respect that they played it pretty clever with Hamilton & i'm not afraid to acknowledge that due to rose-tinted specs. I always try to be that way

I do find it crazy however, the time it took to investigate the crime and issue the punishment along with the "serve it within 3 laps" rule and the fact that a gap was able to be built which negated the penalty. . It was clear to me that there was some footage that we hadn't been shown about how both Ferrari drivers raced were destroyed around the deployment of the SC & it took far too long for us to be shown that footage. Where on earth could it have been?

I think what Brundle meant by his comments was that the drive-through removed the racing spectacle of a really good fight for the win, in a sporting sense rather than Hamilton winning, if you know what i mean. I don't particularly share many peoples' strong feelings about Brundle's bias against Ferrari & it's drivers, or Legards. I prefer that commentary duo. I can't abide Croft at all, i find him cringe-worthy to listen to in his tone, constant cliches or football references or attempting pathetic jokes that i just don't find funny and there's something about Davidson i don't like...it's like he's bitter and a bit childish about "only" doing what he's done in F1.

One more thing....i haven't seen or heard anyone consider that Webber had red mist when running into Kovalainen. I reckon that move was an act of impetuosity after his fall down the field, with his team-mate in the lead.

Webber didn't NEED to make THAT move on THAT lap.

I know the debate is there about HK shoudn't have tried to race him but imo he was perfectly entitled to do so, it was for position and HK raced cleanly. I can't fathom how Webber didn't consider that HK would have to brake much earlier than him due to his inferior car. Webber said HK braked 80 metres earlier than MW did on the previous lap...what on earth did he expect??

I reckon Webber had red mist & his impetuosity is to blame, not HK, not Lotus for being "there" or 4 secs a lap slower.

Sorry for the long-winded, waffly post.
It's difficult to articulate when you're at work